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What are the possibilities for stone shape?
Can it be used to build a "cocoon" around an unwilling target? Does the target receive a Reflex save to avoid? What if the creature had SR?
I'm considering adding a rule interpretation that says, "All wall and wall-type spells work as follows unless the spell description says otherwise: Any wall spell cast such that it hinders, damages, encloses, or otherwise affects an unwilling allows the target creature(s) a Reflex save to avoid. If the spell doesn't normally allow a saving throw, use the DC the spell would have if it did allow a saving throw."
Without that clause the GM is left with no advice about how to rule when a wall of force is created such that it slices through a creature, for example. The often used spells do specify the effect (blade barrier, wall of ice, wall of fire, and others do specify the effects on nearby creatures as part of their descriptions so they wouldn't be affected by this clarification).
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In the case of stone shape, if a caster was high enough level to shape enough volume of rock to make the cocoon - then yes. However, it would take a fairly large volume of rock to create the cocoon, so it is unlikely that anything larger than medium size would ever be threatened by this - also note that stone can be broken if it is thin enough, much like wall of stone. This spell seems to be more of an "effect" spell where it does not specifically target the affected character. Due to this, my interpretation is that Spell Resistance would not apply because the spell is not directly affecting the target character. The spell description says no saving throw, my interpretation is that this is referring to the targeted stone object - however, if this were to happen in my game I would allow a reflex save to the targeted character (not the stone) since the character is getting caught in an effect that does not directly target the magic at them (similar to being caught in a rockslide or a cave in; see the description in Wall of Stone that is very similar to this application where the save is specifically allowed). Note if the character is not free to react, I would not allow a reflex save. Two more common uses of this spell that I have seen are to shape the stone enough to encase the target's feet - thereby immobilizing / grounding the opponent temporarily and using the spell to create manacles to pin a hand or a weapon. This takes a lot less volume and is available immediately to the caster. Wall of Stone is really the spell for a character to use to create the cocoon effect.
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Note also that stone shape is a transmutation spell and not a conjuration like wall of stone. This is important because it is clarifying that stone shape is not actually creating or removing any material. Note in the text where it refers to an existing piece of stone, so with this spell you are reshaping the existing stone surface. The stone for the cocoon or manacles or whatever is "sculpted" or "pulled" from the surrounding stone. Wall of stone actually "creates" new stone, which is why it is a conjuration spell.
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Note that wall of stone describes using the spell for the cocoon effect and it does not allow spell resistance to apply.
Yes, I hadn't thought to look at wall of stone. My bad. :(
It does seem that if there's another spell that can accomplish this, then stone shape isn't the right one to use.
I agree about the "concrete galoshes" and stone manacles. As someone else pointed out, the stone shape spell only modifies existing stone, so for manacles there would need to be a stone source nearby. And I would definitely allow a Reflex save to be caught by either of those two effects. There's even precedent in 3.x for allowing a bonus due to the effects being targeted at a creature's limbs. (I think it was one of the special attack options -- disarm perhaps?)
As I haven't received any comments to the contrary, I'm going to stick with my "rule clarification" for wall-type spells that I mentioned in the OP.
Thanks for the opinions!
What are the possibilities for stone shape?
Can it be used to build a "cocoon" around an unwilling target? Does the target receive a Reflex save to avoid? What if the creature had SR?
I'm considering adding a rule interpretation that says, "All wall and wall-type spells work as follows unless the spell description says otherwise: Any wall spell cast such that it hinders, damages, encloses, or otherwise affects an unwilling allows the target creature(s) a Reflex save to avoid. If the spell doesn't normally allow a saving throw, use the DC the spell would have if it did allow a saving throw."
Without that clause the GM is left with no advice about how to rule when a wall of force is created such that it slices through a creature, for example. The often used spells do specify the effect (blade barrier, wall of ice, wall of fire, and others do specify the effects on nearby creatures as part of their descriptions so they wouldn't be affected by this clarification).
It think it could be possible, as long as the necessary source of material (stone) is
1) Adjacent to the creature
2) in sufficient quantity to "cocoon" the target.
It should allow Reflex save to avoid, but SR shouldn't have any effect.
In the vein of thought, could stone shape "trap" the foot of an opponent? If yes, I don't see why it couldn't keep cocooning.
If not, I'd say that Stone Shape cannot efficiently "cocoon" an opponent in a tight fit (restraining movement and potentially breathing) but rather trap the opponent in a crude "cage" of the same dimension as the creature's size (5 ft. square for a small or medium creature).
From a purely balance perspective, I'd opt for the second option.
'findel
Even if you had someone standing on a block of stone and then used stone shape to bore out a cavity into which they would then fall, I'd grant a Reflex save. If the target was standing up against a wall and you tried to craft a ring of stone to hold them in place, again I'd grant a Reflex save. The spell moves and shapes existing stone, which it seems to me would take some time. Even for very quick shaping I think it's only fair to let a target try to evade what's being done near them. Helpless targets need not apply.
Can it be used to build a "cocoon" around an unwilling target? Does the target receive a Reflex save to avoid? What if the creature had SR?There are no rules so there is no RAW.
Should it be allowed? No
If allowed, should it have a Reflex? Yes
If allowed, should it have SR? Yes
If it were allowed, and there is no logical reason why not, I agree there shouls be a reflex save, however no SR should be allowed.
My Reasoning is as follows;SR only affects spells that directly target, such as Magic Missle, or Fireball or Polymorph. Spell like wall of stone and or wall of fire are not affected, because one the effect is created it is no longer magical. Sam would go with this spell, it does not target the creature directly, but the area around him.