In a recently started game, I'm playing an elven straight class fighter (only second). I was considering feat choices and I like the idea of Stand Still for some battlefield control. However, after reviewing the feat I found that, disappointingly, it seems inferior to getting Improved Trip. Both take 2 feats to get into, (combat reflexes and stand still versus combat expertise and improved trip).
Stand still, in place of an AoO, can use a combat maneuver check to stop the character still, keeping whatever else of their round they have. Improved Trip, as a combat maneuver, can be used in place of an AoO, and should the check succeed, puts the opponent prone, stopping their movement as well as the prone condition. Also, adds 2 to both offensive and defensive rolls for tripping, and for that matter can be used offensively.
Am I missing something, or is Stand Still genuinely an inferior choice to Improved Trip, even not accounting for the fact that you get a bonus on Imp Trip and it can be used offensively?
Edit: for grammar.
Am I missing something, or is Stand Still genuinely an inferior choice to Improved Trip, even not accounting for the fact that you get a bonus on Imp Trip and it can be used offensively?
Stand Still works with any weapon, not just trip weapons.
Stand Still works on things that cannot be tripped, such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures.Stand Still works on things that are more than one size category larger than you are.
Stand Still is not affected by how many legs the thing has.
Stand Still will stop a normal crawl or a Rogue Crawl (Ex).
edit:added crawl
Am I missing something, or is Stand Still genuinely an inferior choice to Improved Trip, even not accounting for the fact that you get a bonus on Imp Trip and it can be used offensively?Stand Still works with any weapon, not just trip weapons.
Stand Still works on things that cannot be tripped, such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures.
Stand Still works on things that are more than one size category larger than you are.
Stand Still is not affected by how many legs the thing has.
Stand Still will stop a normal crawl or a Rogue Crawl (Ex).edit:added crawl
Good points, I can see the versatility there. So many creatures, even dwarves, give you a hard time on tripping. Fairly helpful to be able to protect your casters no matter what's ripping by your space. I had first thought that the AoO itself, if you hit, would stop them from moving. I suppose that would be too good though, a no-brainer choice for a tank'ish character.
PS: The size concern is funny, you could stop a Titan dead in it's track when trying to walk over you. Pretty awesome really.
Well to be fair, that great sword would be a bit more than a thorn in the titan's foot!
Well to be fair, that great sword would be a bit more than a thorn in the titan's foot!
Hah yes. Not that's it's of particular import but I've decided to pick up the feat. I'm high dex anyway, and reflexes with that should help me keep the bad's off my casters. Casting in melee is scarier these days, but it always should have been imo.
Am I missing something, or is Stand Still genuinely an inferior choice to Improved Trip, even not accounting for the fact that you get a bonus on Imp Trip and it can be used offensively?Stand Still works with any weapon, not just trip weapons.
Stand Still works on things that cannot be tripped, such as oozes, creatures without legs, and flying creatures.
Stand Still works on things that are more than one size category larger than you are.
Stand Still is not affected by how many legs the thing has.
Stand Still will stop a normal crawl or a Rogue Crawl (Ex).edit:added crawl
Stand Still can be used by dummies who don't have the necessary 13 Int for Improved Trip.
Good call. I myself have gotten into the habit of decent/high int fighters. I hate being terrible at everything except the art of swording. "Quick, jump over the <insert generic obstacle> and smoke that caster! What's that, the physically domineering warrior can't climb/jump/swim/ride for squat?"
In fact, for this character, I took the Golarion alternate class feature to sack a combat feat for 4+int skills and a few more class skills.
So I guess the next question becomes, why would you take Improved Trip over Stand Still? Because you DO have the 13 INT and tripping weapon, and want to show off? Or maybe you're a monk, and you can get that for free.
Big factor imo, can be used offensively. Few combat maneuvers screw you as bad as prone in a square. Standing provokes, attacking sucks, ac hit of 4. Tough situation that trip monkeys can create constantly. Though it's nice to see it tougher to do in Pathfinder, with all maneuvers (so no spamming the same maneuvers all the time, should be a choice).
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Big factor imo, can be used offensively. Few combat maneuvers screw you as bad as prone in a square. Standing provokes, attacking sucks, ac hit of 4. Tough situation that trip monkeys can create constantly. Though it's nice to see it tougher to do in Pathfinder, with all maneuvers (so no spamming the same maneuvers all the time, should be a choice).
Hence why there are SO many people pissed off at the fact that it still costs two feats to get. I have to agree. If you're going to nerf something, don't make it still hard to get. Unless you're a monk (free at 6th) or a fighter, chances are you don't have the feats to waste on getting it.
Big factor imo, can be used offensively. Few combat maneuvers screw you as bad as prone in a square. Standing provokes, attacking sucks, ac hit of 4. Tough situation that trip monkeys can create constantly. Though it's nice to see it tougher to do in Pathfinder, with all maneuvers (so no spamming the same maneuvers all the time, should be a choice).Hence why there are SO many people pissed off at the fact that it still costs two feats to get. I have to agree. If you're going to nerf something, don't make it still hard to get. Unless you're a monk (free at 6th) or a fighter, chances are you don't have the feats to waste on getting it.
While I can definitely see that perspective, I have to admit I got sick of the tripping sometimes in 3.5. The problem was that in normal combat you never saw it. However, if a character came along who had the feat/setup, that's all he freaking did, and it got old fast. Really fast. Combat should be dynamic and interesting, not spamming maneuvers on someone to set up the dnd equivalent of a juggle combo. Gah, drove me nuts. Anyway, even with it being a bit tougher in general to use maneuvers, I'm not sorry to see a feat requirement for trip.
Edit: for grammar.