I do believe that Paizo has stated that they have no plans on doing updated APs.
I too am running RotRL under Beta and now under PFRPG and am having no problem. I too have had to calculate the CMB and CMD for monsters and NPCs (pesky players keep wanting to use all the nifty options).
|
Actually the correct answer is: it depends.
You can take the whole AP and run it "as it is", with the only thing you have to is to calculate CMD/CMB (oh and the concentration modifier, since the skill is gone in PFRPG).
However you can go "fully monty" and restat all the NPCs and monsters complete with new feats, skills, items, classes etc.
In my experience several fights are rather easy for PFRPG characters and you might consider boosting HPs on "mook" enemies and some undead bosses. However it doesn't hurt that bad, because RotRL is a *brutal* AP at times and there several "are we at a TPK yet ?" encounters (Xanesha, I am looking at you !)
Still, the fact that you can have a perfectly great Pathfinder RPG experience using legacy 3.5 material is, in my opinion, beyond cool.
In fact, I am currently running RoRL with Pathfinder pretty much as is, and having a great time with it.
I think for the APs, fast is the suggested speed. I started mine out with medium, and they did start to lag behind the recommended levels for the adventure a little. Switched over to fast, and so far they're more in line.
Awesome. Thanks guys. What experience path should I run these guys on? Fast, normal, or slow?
I'm running this as "Fast" and it works fine-
GRU
|
I think for the APs, fast is the suggested speed. I started mine out with medium, and they did start to lag behind the recommended levels for the adventure a little. Switched over to fast, and so far they're more in line.
How far behind was your group lagging? I was thinking of adding in some of my own stuff and if the party is falling behind, that would be an excellent excuse to do it.
I am running it on the slow experience table, with other adventures mixed in.
With the PDFs, my players rarely know when it is the AP or another adventure that they are on. Which I think is great, as there is no metagaming (even unintentional metagaming) on the players part concerning the story line.
How far behind was your group lagging? I was thinking of adding in some of my own stuff and if the party is falling behind, that would be an excellent excuse to do it.
They're just hitting 6th level as we're heading into the last encounters of Skinsaw Murders, which is where they should be from what I can tell. If I was using Medium progression still, they'd be just going into 5th level (and be far too underpowered to even look at Xanesha, I think).
With medium progression, there's definitely room for adding in stuff.
I'm running it (started in 3.5, then alpha, then beta, now final) - finally hitting book 4. Using Fast progression, since the AP was designed with that rate in mind. Medium would probably work - it would just be more challenging (facing the same challenges, Medium progression would be just 1 level behind Fast).
|
|
I'm running it (started in 3.5, then alpha, then beta, now final) - finally hitting book 4. Using Fast progression, since the AP was designed with that rate in mind. Medium would probably work - it would just be more challenging (facing the same challenges, Medium progression would be just 1 level behind Fast).
Challenging in so far as just the boss fights or regular encounters as well?
Challenging in so far as just the boss fights or regular encounters as well?
Running an AP designed for Fast progression under Medium would generally leave the party 1 level lower at all times. That would make all encounters a bit rougher, and they won't ever catch up.
Basically it ratchets up the difficulty/swinginess of the whole AP. Boss encounters (such as the Notorious X) would have to be carefully watched.
Also, if the group is above 4 PCs, they will be even further behind, and that can start to cause oddities.
This all assuming that you don't add additional encounters/side-treks to make up the difference. The Fast/Medium/Slow progressions are a great way to scale *either* difficulty *or* allow for extra stuff (50% more for Medium, 125% more for Slow).
CEO
|
I am actually trying something new with this AP. Rather than give out XP, I am allowing my players to all go up levels at certain points in the storyline where it makes sense. And it is working really well, IMHO. No longer do I need to worry that they are underpowered or overpowered. No longer do I have to worry about whether or not to give XP for a social encounter or if they use a spell to force a force of monsters to flee the battle, or use stealth to sneak by all the encounters. No longer do some of players b~!#% when we have a session tht is nothing but roleplaying, but then they get no XP for the night. Basically, it is all predicated on the storyline and what level I need them to be when I need them to be there. And the pace seems really nice to me. This is the first time as a DM (almost 25 years of experience) that I am happy with the whole leveling process. I highly recommend trying this some time in your campaign.
-Lisa
I am actually trying something new with this AP. Rather than give out XP, I am allowing my players to all go up levels at certain points in the storyline where it makes sense. And it is working really well, IMHO. No longer do I need to worry that they are underpowered or overpowered. No longer do I have to worry about whether or not to give XP for a social encounter or if they use a spell to force a force of monsters to flee the battle, or use stealth to sneak by all the encounters. No longer do some of players b&&#* when we have a session tht is nothing but roleplaying, but then they get no XP for the night. Basically, it is all predicated on the storyline and what level I need them to be when I need them to be there. And the pace seems really nice to me. This is the first time as a DM (almost 25 years of experience) that I am happy with the whole leveling process. I highly recommend trying this some time in your campaign.
-Lisa
How are the players feeling about it? :)
I am actually trying something new with this AP. Rather than give out XP, I am allowing my players to all go up levels at certain points in the storyline where it makes sense. <snip> I highly recommend trying this some time in your campaign.
-Lisa
I'm doing this also with a CotCT campaign which starts tomorrow. The players think that it is an excellent idea. I have the levels roughed out all the way to the end of the campaign, although I'll tweek as we go along because not even the best laid plans survive in entirity. I'll post the breakdown in the future, but I know at least one of my sneaky players visits paizo occasionally...
|
CEO
|
How are the players feeling about it? :)I am actually trying something new with this AP. Rather than give out XP, I am allowing my players to all go up levels at certain points in the storyline where it makes sense. And it is working really well, IMHO. No longer do I need to worry that they are underpowered or overpowered. No longer do I have to worry about whether or not to give XP for a social encounter or if they use a spell to force a force of monsters to flee the battle, or use stealth to sneak by all the encounters. No longer do some of players b&&#* when we have a session tht is nothing but roleplaying, but then they get no XP for the night. Basically, it is all predicated on the storyline and what level I need them to be when I need them to be there. And the pace seems really nice to me. This is the first time as a DM (almost 25 years of experience) that I am happy with the whole leveling process. I highly recommend trying this some time in your campaign.
-Lisa
I think they really like it a lot. At least they haven't b+%~&ed to me. :) It seems like they can now focus entirely on having a good time adventuring without wondering where they are going to pick up enough XP to get to a high enough level to have a chance at the next big bad in the adventure. XP always seemed so artificial and now all the headaches surrounding it are gone but the cool benefit, leveling, is still there.
-Lisa
|
I think they really like it a lot. At least they haven't b*@*#ed to me. :) It seems like they can now focus entirely on having a good time adventuring without wondering where they are going to pick up enough XP to get to a high enough level to have a chance at the next big bad in the adventure. XP always seemed so artificial and now all the headaches surrounding it are gone but the cool benefit, leveling, is still there.
-Lisa
That is a conclusion I came to as well Lisa, after running Shackled City up to Thirteen Cages last deployment. I haven't had time to test it, but I'm glad to hear positive things from your experience.
Something else I'm starting to advocate is throwing out the magic item economy. Buying/finding the gear you need for your level should be roleplayed out and not involve gold. Divorcing gold from magic items lets you give stupendous hoards without unbalancing the party, and lets them use it for roleplay purposes like the fighter building himself a castle.
I haven't had the chance to try it out yet either, but I plan to on my next campaign. I hope you find this idea as exciting as I do.
[/threadjack]
I am actually trying something new with this AP. Rather than give out XP, I am allowing my players to all go up levels at certain points in the storyline where it makes sense.
-Lisa
I have been doing the same for a while now (but I am a sneeky GM and haven't told my players yet).
I find it works well, as I haven't had to worry about CR levels, balancing monsters against the party level and need for XP.
I also have made it a rule that the party advances in levels at the same time, as keeping track of who fought which monster is more of a headache than I need. As well, it allows my players to not worry about missing a session when the Real crops up (sick kids, significant other issues, etc..).
Edit. I have used the slow progression track as a guideline for how often the players should level.
Something else I'm starting to advocate is throwing out the magic item economy. Buying/finding the gear you need for your level should be roleplayed out and not involve gold. Divorcing gold from magic items lets you give stupendous hoards without unbalancing the party, and lets them use it for roleplay purposes like the fighter building himself a castle.
I haven't had the chance to try it out yet either, but I plan to on my next campaign. I hope you find this idea as exciting as I do.
I haven't taken that approach, but I do some "strange" things for magic items, that tie into the players role playing and the campaign.
Examples: One of the side adventures that I am running the players thru (almost done too) is the Demon Within module, just before starting the 4th AP. As a reward for doing the mission, Iomedae is going to add "Demon Bane" to all of their weapons (that is evil outsider bane). So, no cost in either gold or time for the players.
I have done similar things with some AP specific magic items as well.
...Rather than give out XP, I am allowing my players to all go up levels at certain points in the storyline where it makes sense....
-Lisa
Another vote for this. I'm just levelling the group when the time is right. Far less fiddly. I just say 'OK. You're all 4th' and we're done. Wish I'd done this year's ago!
There are a number of threads that declare the best spots to level a party in the APs.
I've been going by that, and frankly, it is much better. XP is just a legacy to me now.
Expanding on Lisa's endorsement, I find that if the players know they will level at a certain plot point which is usually also a battle, then they work a lot harder to advance the plot than they might ordinarily. It's not just easier on the GM's bookkeeping, it makes for a better, faster-paced game in general.
In fact, I'm surprised at the lack of mention for this method in the PRPG Core Rules. Something for the Gamemastery Guide, perhaps?
I have also jettisoned XP for about the last two years, and it has worked great. It also allows for more adventuring as it makes sense within the story, versus making sense with a mechanic.
|
CEO
|
Something else I'm starting to advocate is throwing out the magic item economy. Buying/finding the gear you need for your level should be roleplayed out and not involve gold. Divorcing gold from magic items lets you give stupendous hoards without unbalancing the party, and lets them use it for roleplay purposes like the fighter building himself a castle.
I haven't had the chance to try it out yet either, but I plan to on my next campaign. I hope you find this idea as exciting as I do.
[/threadjack]
I have been playing around with a similar idea. It really, really irks me to have the players finding cool and interesting magic items only to have them all sold for gold and then converted into belts of super-high stats, or rings of you can't hit me anymore. I haven't come up with exactly what I am going to do yet, so I am interested in hearing ideas from the rest of you. At the moment, I am only allowing my players to buy +2 stat boost items, protection items, and magic weapons. But they can buy cool and fun items almost at will, but I get to decide what is a cool and fun item. :) I would love to find a way to have them only get magic items from the adventure, but will need to come up with a way to transfer magic +'s on weapons and armor to other types of weapons and armor so that they can "keep" the items while transferring them to items they can actually use.
-Lisa
|
|
Well, one thought I've had for quite awhile is to remove the stat-boosts and things like that from magic items and integrate them into character advancement.
Ideally this would mean a magic weapon or armor in a level X characters possession would have a +X. However people like their +5 swords, so I don't see that happening any time soon. More doable is to get rid of stat-boosters and just have ability scores increase at a faster rate.
The main problem I have is knowing what a character should have at a given level. When do they need that increase to a +2 weapon? A better Cloak of Resistance? The DMG and such never really come out and say it, so the wealth by level guidelines are the only loose idea we have to go by.
One design parameter I've come to believe in is that number increases should come from level advancement, while magic items should offer different ways to use those numbers. Magic items as of now do both, the first through +X weapons and armor, the second through boots of flying. (I don't recall if that's the correct item, but you understand what I mean.) It's not something that is backwards compatible, but were I to write my own RPG I'd try to follow that.
I'm very interested in the Bestiary to see if your team has done any work defining what you should expect a level X character and a CR X monster to be numerically.
I bought "Complete Gear" from Dreamscarred and have thought about doing magic items this way, with some restrictions on +'s....
-- david
Papa.DRB
Something else I'm starting to advocate is throwing out the magic item economy. Buying/finding the gear you need for your level should be roleplayed out and not involve gold. Divorcing gold from magic items lets you give stupendous hoards without unbalancing the party, and lets them use it for roleplay purposes like the fighter building himself a castle.
I haven't had the chance to try it out yet either, but I plan to on my next campaign. I hope you find this idea as exciting as I do.
[/threadjack]
I have been playing around with a similar idea. It really, really irks me to have the players finding cool and interesting magic items only to have them all sold for gold and then converted into belts of super-high stats, or rings of you can't hit me anymore. I haven't come up with exactly what I am going to do yet, so I am interested in hearing ideas from the rest of you. At the moment, I am only allowing my players to buy +2 stat boost items, protection items, and magic weapons. But they can buy cool and fun items almost at will, but I get to decide what is a cool and fun item. :) I would love to find a way to have them only get magic items from the adventure, but will need to come up with a way to transfer magic +'s on weapons and armor to other types of weapons and armor so that they can "keep" the items while transferring them to items they can actually use.
-Lisa
|
|
I am actually trying something new with this AP. Rather than give out XP, I am allowing my players to all go up levels at certain points in the storyline where it makes sense. And it is working really well, IMHO. No longer do I need to worry that they are underpowered or overpowered. No longer do I have to worry about whether or not to give XP for a social encounter or if they use a spell to force a force of monsters to flee the battle, or use stealth to sneak by all the encounters. No longer do some of players b#*~& when we have a session tht is nothing but roleplaying, but then they get no XP for the night. Basically, it is all predicated on the storyline and what level I need them to be when I need them to be there. And the pace seems really nice to me. This is the first time as a DM (almost 25 years of experience) that I am happy with the whole leveling process. I highly recommend trying this some time in your campaign.
-Lisa
Hmm, I may try this in my current game.
I have been playing around with a similar idea. It really, really irks me to have the players finding cool and interesting magic items only to have them all sold for gold and then converted into belts of super-high stats, or rings of you can't hit me anymore. I haven't come up with exactly what I am going to do yet, so I am interested in hearing ideas from the rest of you.
Radical Components: Scaled up material components for item creation. Things like dire-bat wings (Cloak of the Bat), the claw of a living spidercreature from the Irespan (Keen Edge), and the spinal fluid of a creature with genius-level intellect (Headband of Intellect) have featured in my campaign. My players know that the list prices in the book are estimates of the value of the radical, not market prices for items.
Radicals formalize the "side quest" to make a specific item. If players can obtain the necessary item themselves, great! If not, they will have to find a source for the component, and pay a retrieval fee (for which I look to the item price as a guide, but hazard pay enters into the equation).
Having just the right items is a big part of the game, I think it's the soulless system of obtaining them that's the problem. Players love radical components because it gives them access to more adventures and items they want but couldn't necessarily afford. As a GM, it offers me wealth control, plot hooks, and flavor.
Availability rolls: The 75% item availability rule in the new core rulebook is a good start. Point it out to your players, and tell them you want to see the rolls if they buy anything not on the town list. The argument "it's in the book so I can use it for my character" works both ways.
Shift the baseline: If there's an item you see occurring far too often, like the old Amulet of Natural Armor + Cloak of Protection + Ring of protection, etc. and it is making your game boring — Ban it. If the item is "written in" to the rules, add that power to Table 3-1 as a general advancement feature for all creatures. This should keep the math from breaking too hard. Although Mr. Bulmahn did promise us that such items are no longer considered mandatory, so this is probably the most extreme prescription.
Hope some of this helps!
|
|
Is it me, or does it just seem like as DMs, some of you guys are letting your players dictate what they buy? It's really easy to control what resources and treasure your players find, buy and have excess too, the exception of course being craft-mages. Thankfully, I don't have one of those as a player, so its a null and void point for me.
|
I would love to find a way to have them only get magic items from the adventure, but will need to come up with a way to transfer magic +'s on weapons and armor to other types of weapons and armor so that they can "keep" the items while transferring them to items they can actually use.
-Lisa
I'm in a similar spot in my RotRL campaign (just finished the seige of Sandpoint) and wanted to address the same issue. Here's what I did:
My PCs took an aerial bombardment approach to the retaking of Fort Rannick, blowing the watchtower and wooden barracks to bits with fireballs and lightning bolts. When the smoke cleared and the main keep had been cleared out, they set to rebuilding ... underneath the ruined barracks, they found an ancient dwarven anvil that had been buried there for safe-keeping. An artifact-level item, it 'captures' the enchantments of any magic item destroyed on its surface, allowing the item's powers to be transferred to another item (at half the normal crafting time). If the PCs don't want to create another item with the same abilities, I let them destroy an item and capture half its value as generic magic energy that can be used for other purposes at full crafting time. If they want to transfer the abilities to an existing magic item (such as destroying a +1 flaming halberd and adding that to a +1 bastard sword to make a +2 flaming sword they have to pay the difference in the final cost with additional gold/gems, but still benefit from the reduced crafting time.
If you wanted to use the anvil idea, I also considered putting it in the forge in the Hook Mountain ogre lair. The Jorgenfist dungeons or Runeforge could work, as well.
The other house rule I instituted that has encouraged the group to keep more of the cool loot they find is to ignore the "+50 percent cost per additional ability" rule when pricing magic items they find, but enforcing it when they craft their own. As a result, they're more likely to keep things like Xanesha's snakeskin tunic even if the whole suite of abilities isn't exactly what they want. Plus, I'd rather the characters have fewer items with many cool and abilities than a boatload of bland stuff that adds up to the same thing.
Also, while I allow the group to purchase magic items (primarily in Magnimar) I worked up a list of what's available for purchase or barter. Custom items are available within limits, but the crafting time has discouraged much of that - with a cleric and wizard with crafting feats, the group mostly makes their own with the anvil.
Is it me, or does it just seem like as DMs, some of you guys are letting your players dictate what they buy? It's really easy to control what resources and treasure your players find, buy and have excess too, the exception of course being craft-mages. Thankfully, I don't have one of those as a player, so its a null and void point for me.
There's a version of this that is more insidious than out-of-control players, though. If a game lacks a strong continuity, characters jumping from GM-to-GM as sometimes happens, it's also very easy for players to pull items from the ether. And without a single GM overseeing, it's not really even their fault.
Now, back when we played Shadowrun 3, this wasn't a problem. We changed GMs every week, but they had street index and availability, an permits. So in order to obtain some items, there was and additional cost involved, and a system of sources with a paper trail that any GM could look into.
"Bad GM" isn't always the problem, nor is "Bad Players". The heart of the problem is that a very stable magic item economy is implied by the 3.5 rules. The new book aims to fix this by injecting some instability, but I do wonder if it goes far enough to put control back in the GM's hands by default.
Is it me, or does it just seem like as DMs, some of you guys are letting your players dictate what they buy?
What's wrong with letting your players have the equipment that makes them happy, as long as it's appropriate for their power level?
In my Shackled City play-by-email game a couple of years ago, I got rid of XP (as noted above) and I also allowed my players to retool their equipment to their heart's content between adventures (as long as they stayed within the wealth-by-level guidelines); they could add whatever backstory they liked to explain how they got it.
I have always felt DMs are the teat that players derive everything they need beyond the basics. That is one reason I liked organized play. If some of that rewards system could be applied to the home game it would be great with player character's access increased with prestige automatically.
I’ve included a permanent transmutation spell (Reforge, 4th level arcane, 5th divine) to change the shape magical items (mostly weapons, armors and shields), a permanent convertion divine spell (Rededicate, 4th) that would change an items property to an equivalent property in line with the divine caster’s ethos. Casting times in hours and component costs of 1/10th or 1/20th base costs.
Also, I allowed the Mastercraftman Feat and Item Creation feats to transfer abilities from one item to the next but I haven’t found a good mechanic for it. I’ll probably make it faster than making items from scratch.
For RotRL my group now has:
A Trident +1 of returning that was the imp’s dagger reforged by a cleric of Gozrhe.
An Adamantine Earthbreaker +1, the adam. came from the heavy pick in Foxglove manor and the enchantement from Alden’s War-razor.
A Mithril Shirt +1 from that was enchanted with gogmurt’s armor.
|
|
I don't think that its bad DMing or bag playing that leads to some of these problems, but bad communication. My players are all new-ish and I'm getting to "train" them as to how I run games. If the players want an item, they have to see if its in town. If the town can't support the item's cost, I'll throw in an encounter as loot.
It's the accessing of items (and feats) outside of the sphere of influence I am using that irks me. Thankfully, with Pathfinder, I've simply decreed if it's not Pathfinder, you have to ask before you can use it.
I have been playing around with a similar idea. It really, really irks me to have the players finding cool and interesting magic items only to have them all sold for gold and then converted into belts of super-high stats, or rings of you can't hit me anymore. I haven't come up with exactly what I am going to do yet, so I am interested in hearing ideas from the rest of you. At the moment, I am only allowing my players to buy +2 stat boost items, protection items, and magic weapons. But they can buy cool and fun items almost at will, but I get to decide what is a cool and fun item. :) I would love to find a way to have them only get magic items from the adventure, but will need to come up with a way to transfer magic +'s on weapons and armor to other types of weapons and armor so that they can "keep" the items while transferring them to items they can actually use.
-Lisa
I've had the same idea and simply made a spell for that, it's still in BETA testing and i haven't had a chance to playtest it more than a couple of times.
Transfer magical properties
School none (universal) Level bard 2, cleric 2, druid 2, paladin 2, ranger 2, sorcerer 2, wizard 2
Casting
Casting Time 2 hours
Components V, S, M (a proper workbench, peace and quiet and valuable gems/gold)
Effect
Range one touched magical object
Target one magical object
Duration permanent
Saving Throw none; (object) Spell Resistance no (object)
description
You take a magical object and transfer it’s magical properties to another similar object. This object has to be of the same general type and it has to be at least a masterwork object. You have to meet the prerequisites to make the object (as if you were creating a brand new magical object).
You can’t combine two magical objects (you can’t just transfer the Flaming ability from a +1 flaming weapon to a +2 weapon, making it a +2 flaming weapon). If you transfer magic from one magical object to another magical object, the magical properties simply switch places. You can’t transfer magic between objects of different types (you can’t make a headband of intellect into a belt of intellect). Transferring magical properties costs 1/10th of the list price (200 gp for an item worth 2000 gp). All rules concerning creating magic objects still apply.
I should add that i allow all casters to make magical items even without the feats, but at twice the cost (list prices)
//Tony
|
|
I am actually trying something new with this AP. Rather than give out XP, I am allowing my players to all go up levels at certain points in the storyline where it makes sense.
I started doing this for my Star Wars Saga campaign a few months ago when we started. One of the nice things, is that it allows me to judge the relative power of the party and challenge them based on how well they're playing without having to fiddle around with CR/XP math. If I want to make the first half of an adventure tough, I can make it tough with no impact on when they might level. It's more free-form and i like it. I think the players like it too (no more ending the night/session/adventure 100 XP short of a new level). The fact that it's less accounting is nice too.
Something else I'm starting to advocate is throwing out the magic item economy. Buying/finding the gear you need for your level should be roleplayed out and not involve gold. Divorcing gold from magic items lets you give stupendous hoards without unbalancing the party, and lets them use it for roleplay purposes like the fighter building himself a castle.
I hadn't thought about it, but I like this idea. No more McMagicMart or selling off items that have no immediate use to turn into stat boosters. I mentioned I'm playing Star Wars Saga earlier, so this isn't really an issue under that system. But I think when we move to PRPG after the SWSE campaign, I might give something like this a whirl.
I would love to find a way to have them only get magic items from the adventure, but will need to come up with a way to transfer magic +'s on weapons and armor to other types of weapons and armor so that they can "keep" the items while transferring them to items they can actually use.
Maybe Christine Schneider's Arcane Anvil from RPG Superstar 2008 is the answer you're looking for.
-Skeld
|
|
I almost never let PC's buy magic items unless they are very limited and they are always very expensive. It makes for a magic scarce game and that's good fun.
As for the question above about what the problem is with allowing players to buy what they want, it's to easy, that's the problem. Make it difficult and they really appreciate the items they find. If you can change anything, or buy everything, to get what you want, why do they care what's in the treasure pile?
As for the question above about what the problem is with allowing players to buy what they want, it's to easy, that's the problem. Make it difficult and they really appreciate the items they find. If you can change anything, or buy everything, to get what you want, why do they care what's in the treasure pile?
Huh? What's in the treasure pile is whatever they want (within limits, of course), so of course they appreciate what they get.
However, I agree that it took some of the "personality" out of magic items, in the sense that they weren't forced to use something weird and unusual because it's they only magic item they have.
And I agree that there is something to be said for playing in a setting where magic is scarce, but I probably wouldn't use straight D&D/Pathfinder rules for that.
|
I have been playing around with a similar idea. It really, really irks me to have the players finding cool and interesting magic items only to have them all sold for gold and then converted into belts of super-high stats, or rings of you can't hit me anymore. I haven't come up with exactly what I am going to do yet, so I am interested in hearing ideas from the rest of you. At the moment, I am only allowing my players to buy +2 stat boost items, protection items, and magic weapons. But they can buy cool and fun items almost at will, but I get to decide what is a cool and fun item. :) I would love to find a way to have them only get magic items from the adventure, but will need to come up with a way to transfer magic +'s on weapons and armor to other types of weapons and armor so that they can "keep" the items while transferring them to items they can actually use.-Lisa
I've been trying my darndest to find it, but about a year ago someone posted their houserule system for replacing the "core" item bonuses (deflection, AC, natural armor, etc) with a level-based point-buy system. I can't seem to find the thread, and sadly do not remember who posted the information.
I still have the information on my hard drive, but I hesitate to post it until I can give credit.
We have been using the level up points as well. They work fine and the players seem happy
With respect to magic item balance what we have been trying out in a couple of games is
1)class all +'s (ie deflection, resistance, weapon, armor, stat buff, skill enhancements & enhancements in general-including for example resitnace to fire or +10' enhancement bonus) as uninterseting but necessary pluses. Any of these applied to an item do not increase the cost of a 'fun' magic item (ie boots of levitation, cloak of arachnida) otherwise you inevitably find players tend to ditch the cloak of arachnida to get a +3 cloak of resistance as saves become too important.
2) dont give out heaps of treasure & do not allow people to buy and sell easily
3) allow people to ask for general improvements (ie I want my armor to get better and spend some cash getting my cleric to bless it or having some arcane process)
4) keep an idea of what sort of AC/resistance bonus/+to hit you consider are reasonable at a level
5) If a player has a cool result during an event (ie rolls a 20 on an important save, or attack or survives an attack from a deadly foe) we just grant them an item bonus.
--For example my character has a cloak of arachnida, I love its abilities but I am 9th level and have no resistance item and my saves are lagging a bit. I paid the local wizard 6,000gp to enhance it & later upon rolling a 20 on a save againts red dragon breath that would have put me in serious difficulty if I had failed the DM said I could from now on consider my cloak +1 resistance and 5 points of fire resistance. This has happened with weapons, boots, stat items etc
One of the effects is that we now have items that have a bit more personality and the DM kind of audits the magic by asking the players how there items are going every now & then and keeping a note of what needs to be done - it feels good.
|
|
As for the question above about what the problem is with allowing players to buy what they want, it's to easy, that's the problem. Make it difficult and they really appreciate the items they find. If you can change anything, or buy everything, to get what you want, why do they care what's in the treasure pile?Huh? What's in the treasure pile is whatever they want (within limits, of course), so of course they appreciate what they get.
However, I agree that it took some of the "personality" out of magic items, in the sense that they weren't forced to use something weird and unusual because it's they only magic item they have.
And I agree that there is something to be said for playing in a setting where magic is scarce, but I probably wouldn't use straight D&D/Pathfinder rules for that.
To your first point, making use of what they're given is much more challenging and reduces powergaming.
Your second point is exactly what I mean.
Something else I'm starting to advocate is throwing out the magic item economy. Buying/finding the gear you need for your level should be roleplayed out and not involve gold. Divorcing gold from magic items lets you give stupendous hoards without unbalancing the party, and lets them use it for roleplay purposes like the fighter building himself a castle.
I haven't had the chance to try it out yet either, but I plan to on my next campaign. I hope you find this idea as exciting as I do.
[/threadjack]
I have been playing around with a similar idea. It really, really irks me to have the players finding cool and interesting magic items only to have them all sold for gold and then converted into belts of super-high stats, or rings of you can't hit me anymore. I haven't come up with exactly what I am going to do yet, so I am interested in hearing ideas from the rest of you. At the moment, I am only allowing my players to buy +2 stat boost items, protection items, and magic weapons. But they can buy cool and fun items almost at will, but I get to decide what is a cool and fun item. :) I would love to find a way to have them only get magic items from the adventure, but will need to come up with a way to transfer magic +'s on weapons and armor to other types of weapons and armor so that they can "keep" the items while transferring them to items they can actually use.
-Lisa
What we did to avoid all that is if the magic item has a market value of over 2500 gp, and is not a charged item like a staff or wand, then it costs one constitution point to craft the item. It has the effect of making all magic items extremely valuable and hard to acquire, therefore more likely to be held onto. Since there aren't magic item stores or markets, selling such an item is a hard thing to do. There are no established markets to do so. Because of the rarity of items, the risk of theft and betrayal is great in any sale, so advertising that you own them is not advisable.