According to the entry on Flurry of Blows, you count your monk levels instead of your actual base attack when flurrying.
Does that mean if you have, say, a +4 base attack from fighter levels, and 4 monk levels, when Flurrying you have a +2/+2, since the fighter levels are discounted entirely?
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Add up the BAB of both classes normally, treating the monk as if he had Good BAB for the purposes of flurrying.
A fighter 4/monk 4 would have a total 'normal' BAB of +7/+2, or an effective BAB of +8/+3 when flurrying (as the monk levels would count for full). The flurry would then be at +6/+6/+1. The monk/fighter does not gain the fourth attack as he is not level 8 monk (when they gain the effects of Improved TWF for free with a Flurry).
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
Am I the only one who sees a gaping hole in the monk class in terms of multi-classing when it fails to identify the two-weapon fighting chain it uses as effective feats? RAW a monk who multi-classes out can't use the later feats to fill in the gap and has to start the feat chain from scratch.
I noticed it, but fail to see anything wrong with it. Calling it a "gaping hole" is a bit of an overreaction.
It provides additional incentive to level as a monk. If you multiclass anyway one can still use flurry of blows with their average base attack bonus, granting them the additional extra attacks based on their monk level regardless of other class(es) they level in. Granted, a multiclass monk doesn't make for an optimal two-weapon fighting build, but there's no reason it necessarily should.
So just to make sure I got this (it's late and my brains not fullt functioning)... Let's say we have a monk 10/ shadowdancer 10. Her BAB would be +14/+9/+4, while her Flurry would be +15/+15/+10/+10 correct?
Yes.
Actually I would say that the monk gets a few more attacks with flurry of blows than just 15/15/10/10 as a 10 monk 10 shadowdancer.
The effective BAB for flurry of blows would be 10 from monk and 7 from shadowdancer, giving a 17 bab for 4 regular attacks plus the 2 extra attacks at the 2. for a total of 15/15/10/10/5/0.
Yep - nice catch Brian.
Definitely no gaping hole here. Monk Flurry "virtual" two-weapon fighting is *better* than the actual feats. You definitely shouldn't be able to just take the feats to add on to it.
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Grr, pazio just ate my post :X
So I'm going to shorten what I said because I'm not patient enough to rewrite it all.
Pathfinder conversion guide explains how this works in regards to multiclassing.
A monk’s base attack bonus when performing a flurry of
blows is now equal to his level. His attacks are made as if
using Two-Weapon Fighting (and its improvements at later
levels). Table 3–10 summarizes these bonuses. Change your
flurry of blows base bonuses to match these values (plus
any increases to your base attack bonus from other classes,
which might give you additional attacks with your primary
strike). Note that other increases to your base attack bonus
do not increase the number of attacks you can make with
your off hand, as the bonus feats to gain these attacks are
not gained until you reach the required level of monk.
So 10 monk/10 SD has a bab of 14.
That means main hand attacks of 14/9/4
A 10 monk has 7/2 base and 8/8/3/3 flurrying. Subtract your base attacks from your flurry, leaving you with a modified flurry offhand only of 8/3 Adjust that to your current bab. Since it's one over actual bab due to flurry bonus, that sets it at 15/10
Add that to your main hand
15/14/10/9/4
In regards to monk as two weapon fighting:
I think it was 3.5 that implemented "virtual feats" or abilities that provided the same function as a feat qualified as that feat in regards to prerequisites. Pg 57 lists which step of TWF the monk is on at any given time. You'll still have to meet the stat prerequisites for the other twf feats. As long as you can talk your dm into letting you use virtual feats.
30m post rewritten in about 5 minutes. So... :/
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I have to go with pjackson and against the errata, for the sake of the logic and fairness in the game. The disparity of numbers doesn't make sense when multi-classing. A multi-classed monk should not have a greater BAB with a specific monk class ability (Flurry of Blows) than a monk of the same character level.
It promotes multi-classing cheese when Pathfinder was specifically promoting the idea of individual classes being rewarding enough. Though, technically within the rules, min/maxing with multi-classing makes extra work for everyone. The DM has to adjust CRs, the other players have to adjust their characters and the table gets tense, all because one or two players have some need to be invulnerable. Any player that does this deserves a DM who starts min/maxing villains and monsters. Nerf the sucker enough times and maybe he will get the right idea.
Everyone at the table should be open to compromise and agreement as to what type of game they are playing. A game of min/maxing is definitely an option. However, if you are using Adventure Paths, you better have a DM who is willing to make the conversions.
We have a couple of players who are taking one level of monk in my game. The compromise position I am taking is that Flurry of blows is a Class Ability and cannot be affected by levels taken in other classes (as is stated in Core Rulebook). It is enough that players gain 5 effective free feats (Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, a Bonus Feat, Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes (all those sweet Monk saving throw bonuses)), extra damage with an unarmed strike, the ability to use an attack of opportunity even when armed with a ranged weapon, a d6 for damage with unarmed Strike, and a Wisdom bonus to AC. They don't need a broken Flurry of Blows.
I have to go with pjackson and against the errata, for the sake of the logic and fairness in the game. The disparity of numbers doesn't make sense when multi-classing. A multi-classed monk should not have a greater BAB with a specific monk class ability (Flurry of Blows) than a monk of the same character level.
It promotes multi-classing cheese when Pathfinder was specifically promoting the idea of individual classes being rewarding enough. Though, technically within the rules, min/maxing with multi-classing makes extra work for everyone. The DM has to adjust CRs, the other players have to adjust their characters and the table gets tense, all because one or two players have some need to be invulnerable. Any player that does this deserves a DM who starts min/maxing villains and monsters. Nerf the sucker enough times and maybe he will get the right idea.
Everyone at the table should be open to compromise and agreement as to what type of game they are playing. A game of min/maxing is definitely an option. However, if you are using Adventure Paths, you better have a DM who is willing to make the conversions.
We have a couple of players who are taking one level of monk in my game. The compromise position I am taking is that Flurry of blows is a Class Ability and cannot be affected by levels taken in other classes (as is stated in Core Rulebook). It is enough that players gain 5 effective free feats (Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, a Bonus Feat, Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes (all those sweet Monk saving throw bonuses)), extra damage with an unarmed strike, the ability to use an attack of opportunity even when armed with a ranged weapon, a d6 for damage with unarmed Strike, and a Wisdom bonus to AC. They don't need a broken Flurry of Blows.
Broken? What class are you talking about again? They also don't get to wear armor. Unarmed Strike is not even worth having if you are not a monk. It does not do much for you. Stunning Fist, even for a monk sucks because higher level monster have such high fort saves that normally the Stun will fail, and if you are not a monk the the chance to make it work is even lower. "A bonus feat", really? You make it sound like they get any feat they want. How are they getting all those with one level of monk. If you mean the high saves then you already mentioned that. The monk needs all the help it can get.
I multiclassed monk/SD does not do as well as a straight monk for BAB.
monk 10/shadow 10=BAB of 17 for FoB
Monk 20=BAB of 20 for FoB.