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So, I've just created this character and I had a pertinent question: Do things that amplify the save DCs of Channel Energy also amplify the save DCs of things like Command Undead (since they are a variant use of Channel Energy)? My gut instinct says "Yes" and so I built this character on that assumption (using the Sacred Conduit trait and the Improved Channel feats to amplify my Command Undead) but I wanted to make sure I was right before I actually played him. Thanks!
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Personally as a DM I allow those feats to stack, it makes for very interesting characters... but I'm not sure on the RAW.
It's not so much that I'm worried they won't stack (since, as untyped bonuses, I see no reason why they WOULDN'T stack), but I want to make sure that they amp the save DC for the Command Undead feat as well as amping the DC for simply dealing damage to living creatures.
RAW, they don't. Command Undead states "you can use one of your channel attempts and the undead gets a save equal to..." This is replacing the usual effect and save. If it said "If an undead creature fails its save against your Channel Energy, then it is..." then they would apply.
If you had a feat that let you burn a use of Channel Undead to shoot a fire blast that gives the target a Reflex save DC 15 for half damage, you wouldn't think those channel turn bonuses apply in that case. And note how feats like Elemental Channel don't restate the save formula, but say "the save from Channel Energy remains unchanged." So those explicitly inherit the CE save while Commands and Turn do not.
I personally would let them apply. But if you want the "Magic Card" RAW reading, they don't. (This may or may not be intentional on the designers' part, turning and channeling were separated late in the game.)
In fact, there's a pretty good weasel argument in favor - Improved Channel, at least, says "Add 2 to the DC of saving throws made to resist the effects of your channel energy ability." It doesn't say "add 2 to the DC of your Channel Energy save," which seems to open it up to enhancing the save DCs of the "other uses" of CE. But of course using this route, it depends on the specific wording of the effect doing the enhancement; while Improved Channel could be weaseled in, another such effect might not.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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RAW, they don't...
I can definitely see how it might very likely be as you say. I'm mostly wondering if the wording of the Command Undead feat (or perhaps the wording of Channel Energy) was unintentionally contradictory. It's quite possible that you're correct and that the two saves are mutually exclusive. I'm hoping that's not the case (because it would be a serious setback to this character's function) but maybe I'll see something from an official source today now that they'll be back in the office in a few hours...
Jason? Josh? Insight please! :)
The RAW versus intent in this case are blurry. I'm pretty sure the intent was to have the DC equal to the channeled energy DC. Why it wasn't worded that way is beyond me. Was the intent to have a bunch of abilities that boosted channel energy's DCs but not Turn Undead/Command Undead, which uses Channeled Energy? Does the DC for Turning/Commanding need to be lower than normal channeled energy -- especially since you're spending a feat to use the ability?
RAW: The DC isn't tied to the channeled energy DC, so anything that increases channeled energy's DC doesn't increase the DC for Turn/Command Undead.
Common Sense DMing: The DCs should be tied together.