| Darwin |
The wife has a question on metamagic, sorcerors, and how they learn spells.
hypothetical:
Sorceror has the Enlarge Spell metamagic feat, which adds 1 to the spell level. Magic missile is 1st level, enlarged is 2nd. Could a sorcerer 'learn' Enlarged Magic Missile for a 2nd level spell? Thus it would be a standard casting action instead of full round.
I don't see any problem with this, learning a metamagic'd spell as the standard version to cast. Obviously, the sorceror can't use the standard version of the spell, and it's a higher level, balancing it out. What do folks think about this?
Aubrey the Malformed
|
I don't really see it, to be honest - wouldn't she be better off learning scorching ray or something? It also seems to interfere with the basic premise of how sorcerers and metamagic work. But, from a pure balance perspective, I don't really see much problem with it, though I wouldn't allow it myself on more aesthetic grounds.
| Dilvish the Danged |
If your're talking about creating a new spell that functions exactly like an enlarged magic missile spell, and that is 2nd level, I think it is entirely up to the DM. It doesn't seem overly powerful to me.
From a game point of view, the only suggestion I have is don't call it "Enlarged Magic Missile", as it will get confusing.
| DM_Blake |
That's a tough call for a sorcerer.
While I would be inclined to allow it as a house rule, I am fairly sure it's not intended that way. Still, I don't think it would do any harm so I would allow it.
The problem comes with the limitations of a sorcerer. They just don't get that many spells.
When I play a sorcerer, my goal is to learn as many spells that are extremely different from the other spells I already know as I can. This is usually very important for a sorcerer. Since they can only learn a few spells over their entire career, if they want to be even the least bit versatile, they really need to expand their horizons with different kinds of spells.
Learning a spell that is simply an enlarged version of something they already know is unbelievably limiting. Especially since they would also need the feat (unless you really are talking about researching/learning a player-made spell that isn't in the book, rather than simply a metamagically enlarged spell). To me, that's prohibitively limiting, far far more limiting than standing still duirng my move action so I can enlarge it myself.
For example, I would much rather know Magic Missile and Mirror Image than know Magic Missile and Enlarged Magic Missile. I can always burn a 2nd level slot if I stand still and use my Enlarge Spell feat, and I can also cast Mirror Image when I want. The other way around, all I can do is decide which version of Magic Missile I want to use when I blast someone.
Options.
The poor sorcerer has his options severely limited as it is. I just pity the even poorer sorcerer who voluntarily strips away even more options.
| meabolex |
The wife has a question on metamagic, sorcerors, and how they learn spells.
Quote:I don't see any problem with this, learning a metamagic'd spell as the standard version to cast. Obviously, the sorceror can't use the standard version of the spell, and it's a higher level, balancing it out. What do folks think about this?hypothetical:
Sorceror has the Enlarge Spell metamagic feat, which adds 1 to the spell level. Magic missile is 1st level, enlarged is 2nd. Could a sorcerer 'learn' Enlarged Magic Missile for a 2nd level spell? Thus it would be a standard casting action instead of full round.
Note: this is technically not a rules question (we're clearly outside the rules).
/opinion-hat on
Is this just a way to get a spell to do something without taking a metamagic feat? The vast majority of the time in my experience, the full-round action cast time is negligible in combat. A 5 ft. step and a full-round action cast should be sufficient to use the feat most of the time with a sorcerer. I would argue using the spell tied permanently to a metamagic feat would be significantly weaker than having the feat with the full-round action cast time.
That said, the PF/3.5 offers DMs a method to create spells outside of the book. I think it's acceptable to have a second level version of magic missile with enlarged range.
| Chris Gunter |
This is a wonderful house rule I saw for the first time in Unearthed Arcana on page 140. Learning a metamagic version of a spell permanently by using a higher level "spells known slot" works great with two requirements...
1st - You must know the metamagic feat to be used. If you ever lose access to said feat (or "retrain" it) then you lose access to the modified spell.
2nd - You must know the normal version of the spell. If you ever lose access to said spell (or retrain it) then you lose access to the modified spell as well.
With these requirements I, for one, find this house rule very balanced and fun. I say go for it! It will certainly add to her enjoyment of the game. If you still have any reservations then let her do it with the agreement that it will be on a "probationary period". You'll let her give it a whorl, but you reserve the right to repeal the house rule if you then find it unbalanced.
(There's another house rule regarding "standard action" castings of metamagic spells on page 151 of UA. It's a little more involved, as it requires one to "prepare" metamagic spell slots at the beginning of the day... but it makes sense. I recomend looking it up as well.)