RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I for one am sad to see the Set Pieces go. I really enjoyed them, and thought they were developing nicely.
But, I understand this will benefit the AP books in other ways (increased page count to work with, more room for the main adventure, longer support articles, etc.).
I was reminded by the title of another thread here how much I loved the old Bazaar of the Bizarre articles in Dragon.
I know that the APs are planned far into the future, and any changes wouldn't take effect for several months at this point. But, would it be possible to devote one or two pages of an upcoming AP to regularly feature new, Golarion/region specific magic items? Quick write-ups with some flavor text to tie them to the Adventure, that can be given out to make a treasure horde more interesting and less generic feeling? The article could also be used to expand upon unique treasure items that appear in the AP or are possessed by NPCs that the characters encounter.
I'm thinking talking shrunken heads from the Mwangi, or enchanted sword canes from Taldor, etc. Maybe just 3 to 6 new magic items per issue?
Would anybody else be interested in seeing a feature like this on a regular basis?
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Personally this would belong in the Pathfinder Companions, where I believe some items like this already are being placed. Using AP pages for Magic items should really only be used for a magic item that is thematically tied / key to either a specific adventure of the support article in the AP (God article, city article, race/people article).
Just my 2 cp.
Creative Director
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We already do this, sort of. New magic items appear in Pathfinder APs with relative frequency, but they're not given their own articles for the most part. Instead, they manifest as sidebars or are worked into the text of the adventure.
And then, sometimes, we do include a magic item article, like #22's genie magic article, #5's runelord magic article, or the upcoming article in #27 about strange relics and items recovered from exotic locations by the Pathfinders.
That's too bad. I really liked the idea of the set pieces appearing alongside the AP adventures.
Oh well, I'll live. More room for other good stuff.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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We already do this, sort of. New magic items appear in Pathfinder APs with relative frequency, but they're not given their own articles for the most part. Instead, they manifest as sidebars or are worked into the text of the adventure.
And then, sometimes, we do include a magic item article, like #22's genie magic article, #5's runelord magic article, or the upcoming article in #27 about strange relics and items recovered from exotic locations by the Pathfinders.
Yup! And I loves them sidebars.
I just wanted to basically see more of them.
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Creative Director
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We already do this, sort of. New magic items appear in Pathfinder APs with relative frequency, but they're not given their own articles for the most part. Instead, they manifest as sidebars or are worked into the text of the adventure.
And then, sometimes, we do include a magic item article, like #22's genie magic article, #5's runelord magic article, or the upcoming article in #27 about strange relics and items recovered from exotic locations by the Pathfinders.
Yup! And I loves them sidebars.
I just wanted to basically see more of them.
The Pathfinder Companions might be a good place to go then; there's new magic items showing up in there quite often.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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The Pathfinder Companions might be a good place to go then; there's new magic items showing up in there quite often.We already do this, sort of. New magic items appear in Pathfinder APs with relative frequency, but they're not given their own articles for the most part. Instead, they manifest as sidebars or are worked into the text of the adventure.
And then, sometimes, we do include a magic item article, like #22's genie magic article, #5's runelord magic article, or the upcoming article in #27 about strange relics and items recovered from exotic locations by the Pathfinders.
Yup! And I loves them sidebars.
I just wanted to basically see more of them.
Ooh, I'll have to check that out then. Thanks!
I didn't realize that Paizo was cutting out the set pieces. I have been busy as hell the last couple months and I haven't visited the site for awhile until recently. I didn't like the set pieces at first but than I grew to like them. I am just curious as to why they are going to quit doing them?
Also sorry to see them go. They were a little slow starting, but I thought the set pieces for LoF were excellent.
Also sorry to see them go. They were a little slow starting, but I thought the set pieces for LoF were excellent.
What's a set piece?
Answering several questions :)
What's a Set Piece? Those extra adventures that you can drop in or leave out that are after the main adventure amid the articles in each AP chapter.
Reason they're dropping them? Because it was making it all that much harder for James and crew to get things back in a timely manner and meshed together. There have been issues with some of the set pieces where they logic doesn't flow as smoothly as Paizo would like, or that there are contradictions that there wasn't enough time to fix because of dealing with two authors for that particular AP chapter (one for main, one for set piece) rather than just one.
I like the set pieces, but I can see where some are more awkward to work in than others. I'll miss them, but am looking forward to what they use the space for now :)
First thing I hear about this. So, will things get back to how they were before, with an adventure that's a couple of pages longer? Will it all be in support articles? A mix of both?
What's a Set Piece? Those extra adventures that you can drop in or leave out that are after the main adventure amid the articles in each AP chapter.
Or, to put it another way, it's a chunk of the adventure that gets segregated into its own section and which is only loosely integrated with the rest of the module.
For the folks who will miss the Set Pieces, you're in luck. For the cost of one free subscription, I will be willing separate each adventure path segment into two pieces for you: one I will label the "main part" and one I will label the "set piece". Any takers? :-)
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First thing I hear about this. So, will things get back to how they were before, with an adventure that's a couple of pages longer? Will it all be in support articles? A mix of both?
A mix of both they've said. They want to be able to balance what each issue needs, so if one month's adventure needs lots of maps it would take up more space etc..
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First thing I hear about this. So, will things get back to how they were before, with an adventure that's a couple of pages longer? Will it all be in support articles? A mix of both?
For everyone with questions on the set peices going away, many of them are answered here
Well I must admit that I like the decision. Even though I started to like the set pieces I would rather see more pages of Pathfinder devoted to the main story line.
Would anybody else be interested in seeing a feature like this on a regular basis?
No thanks. That's what the Companions are for.
Why do people insist on diluting the APs? It's already saddled with fiction and pre-gens, and we've seen significant problems in the recent past with continuity issues due to lack of space (and editors' time, unfortunately) - which is a cardinal sin when it comes to any adventure, and especially a long-running AP. And make no mistake: these problems show.
The AP needs to remain an AP. Increasing the adventure word count (when needed), or the AP-specific support articles are superior uses of limited space within an AP. A bunch of magic items is not, AFAIC.
Let's put more of these things in the Companion and Chronicles line - where they belong.
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Would anybody else be interested in seeing a feature like this on a regular basis?No thanks. That's what the Companions are for.
Why do people insist on diluting the APs? It's already saddled with fiction and pre-gens, and we've seen significant problems in the recent past with continuity issues due to lack of space (and editors' time, unfortunately) - which is a cardinal sin when it comes to any adventure, and especially a long-running AP. And make no mistake: these problems show.
The AP needs to remain an AP. Increasing the adventure word count (when needed), or the AP-specific support articles are superior uses of limited space within an AP. A bunch of magic items is not, AFAIC.
QFT
Would anybody else be interested in seeing a feature like this on a regular basis?No thanks. That's what the Companions are for.
Why do people insist on diluting the APs? It's already saddled with fiction and pre-gens, and we've seen significant problems in the recent past with continuity issues due to lack of space (and editors' time, unfortunately) - which is a cardinal sin when it comes to any adventure, and especially a long-running AP. And make no mistake: these problems show.
The AP needs to remain an AP. Increasing the adventure word count (when needed), or the AP-specific support articles are superior uses of limited space within an AP. A bunch of magic items is not, AFAIC.
Let's put more of these things in the Companion and Chronicles line - where they belong.
I agree 100%.
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Would anybody else be interested in seeing a feature like this on a regular basis?No thanks. That's what the Companions are for.
Why do people insist on diluting the APs? It's already saddled with fiction and pre-gens, and we've seen significant problems in the recent past with continuity issues due to lack of space (and editors' time, unfortunately) - which is a cardinal sin when it comes to any adventure, and especially a long-running AP. And make no mistake: these problems show.
The AP needs to remain an AP. Increasing the adventure word count (when needed), or the AP-specific support articles are superior uses of limited space within an AP. A bunch of magic items is not, AFAIC.
Let's put more of these things in the Companion and Chronicles line - where they belong.
^That's my bandwagon right there.
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Would anybody else be interested in seeing a feature like this on a regular basis?No thanks. That's what the Companions are for.
Why do people insist on diluting the APs? It's already saddled with fiction and pre-gens, and we've seen significant problems in the recent past with continuity issues due to lack of space (and editors' time, unfortunately) - which is a cardinal sin when it comes to any adventure, and especially a long-running AP. And make no mistake: these problems show.
The AP needs to remain an AP. Increasing the adventure word count (when needed), or the AP-specific support articles are superior uses of limited space within an AP. A bunch of magic items is not, AFAIC.
I think that things like this would be a good 'filler' for when the set pieces space isn't filled naturally by the other parts of the book (the adventure and filler). Maybe once an adventure path, have a 'items that go well with the path' article ready to fill the space. (and if it doesn't end up being needed then it may work as the online supplement people are cramming for occasionally.
I didn't like the set pieces at first but than I grew to like them. I am just curious as to why they are going to quit doing them?
Two answers: One, stated in detail here.
Wes blamed me for the destruction of the Set Pieces...
*sob*
The other, because Callous Jack killed them.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Would anybody else be interested in seeing a feature like this on a regular basis?No thanks. That's what the Companions are for.
Why do people insist on diluting the APs? It's already saddled with fiction and pre-gens, and we've seen significant problems in the recent past with continuity issues due to lack of space (and editors' time, unfortunately) - which is a cardinal sin when it comes to any adventure, and especially a long-running AP. And make no mistake: these problems show.
The AP needs to remain an AP. Increasing the adventure word count (when needed), or the AP-specific support articles are superior uses of limited space within an AP. A bunch of magic items is not, AFAIC.
Let's put more of these things in the Companion and Chronicles line - where they belong.
*sigh with a side of facepalm*
The magic items would be tied to the AP, as stated above, and would be a support article. Further, I was only thinking about a 2 page spread, not diluting the AP.
But, the point has already been beaten to death. I'll check the Companions line. Thanks.
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Contributor
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Wes blamed me for the destruction of the Set Pieces...
*sob*
Oh, thats a relief, Callous Jack, I thought it was me!
I think I'm cursed you see. First Nick Logue and I sell and adventure to Dungeon -- and they immediately end the magazine.
Now I write a set piece -- and *poof* its the last one.
Unless...unless...I'll get you Callous Jack and your little dog too - YOU put the curse on me!
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Wes blamed me for the destruction of the Set Pieces...
*sob*Oh, thats a relief, Callous Jack, I thought it was me!
I think I'm cursed you see. First Nick Logue and I sell and adventure to Dungeon -- and they immediately end the magazine.
Now I write a set piece -- and *poof* its the last one.
Unless...unless...I'll get you Callous Jack and your little dog too - YOU put the curse on me!
It wasn't me... er... um... it was Daigle, that treacherous mantodea!
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I didn't like the set pieces at first but than I grew to like them. I am just curious as to why they are going to quit doing them?Two answers: One, stated in detail here.
The other, because Callous Jack killed them.Wes blamed me for the destruction of the Set Pieces...
*sob*
*whistles nervously*
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/digging for quote...
Ah, here it is! From James Jacobs at Paizocon II "Callous Jack is a black-hearted b@stard-man who single-handedly killed Set Pieces and the goodness and light they brought into the lives of players and GMs everywhere", and that we should scorn him and spit on him and kick his dog.
//Might be paraphrased or wholly made up by me.
///Still, spit at CJ
////*ptooie!*
Oh, thats a relief, Callous Jack, I thought it was me!Wes blamed me for the destruction of the Set Pieces...
*sob*
Nonono, it was definetly Jack. I've seen him. He just wouldn't stop plunging the knife into the set piece. Again. And again. And.... again.
I stopped counting at one hundred!
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I think that things like this would be a good 'filler' for when the set pieces space isn't filled naturally by the other parts of the book (the adventure and filler). Maybe once an adventure path, have a 'items that go well with the path' article ready to fill the space. (and if it doesn't end up being needed then it may work as the online supplement people are cramming for occasionally.
James already gave some examples for magic item articles already published as AP support articles. I think those fit quite well within the frame of an AP ans I don't mind them being published. As a regular feature I think I like them to stay where they are (namely, in the Companion line). Hm, or in KQ.
...now searching for his elven waybread...
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/digging for quote...
Ah, here it is! From James Jacobs at Paizocon II "Callous Jack is a black-hearted b@stard-man who single-handedly killed Set Pieces and the goodness and light they brought into the lives of players and GMs everywhere", and that we should scorn him and spit on him and kick his dog.
//Might be paraphrased or wholly made up by me.
///Still, spit at CJ
////*ptooie!*
Where's my bug spray...?
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Creative Director
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Why do people insist on diluting the APs? It's already saddled with fiction and pre-gens, and we've seen significant problems in the recent past with continuity issues due to lack of space (and editors' time, unfortunately) - which is a cardinal sin when it comes to any adventure, and especially a long-running AP. And make no mistake: these problems show.
The AP needs to remain an AP. Increasing the adventure word count (when needed), or the AP-specific support articles are superior uses of limited space within an AP. A bunch of magic items is not, AFAIC.
Let's put more of these things in the Companion and Chronicles line - where they belong.
I don't think the fiction or the Pre-gens dilute anything. Especially since, as I've mentioned many times elsewhere, the fact of the mater is that on a monthly schedule there's a physical time limit to the amount of time a person can dedicate to developing the adventures. And we're pretty much AT that limit now with adventures from 40 to 50 pages in length. If we were to cut other elements out of an AP (say, the fiction or the ads or the pre-gens), that space would not necessarily be used to build a longer adventure. Increasing adventure length would NOT cure the problems that you say arise when the adventures are cut for length, because it's a simple fact that writers will continue to over-write no matter HOW long the wordcount is, and honestly, if we at Paizo with our one-month window to get all the errors fixed and all the adventures running smoothly together had to wrangle MORE words... the errors would increase. Dramatically. Because if the amount of time we have to work on a volume stays the same, but the amount of words involved increases, the only option is to do less passes or rush things and that, more than anything else, causes those kinds of problems.
And as it works out, those elements serve other purposes than merely AP support. Fiction, for example, helps us maintain an AP's presence in book stores, and lets us develop parts of the world in a different way than it gets developed in an adventure or article. The Pre-Gens help to maintain part of the AP's personality, and are a direct result of overwhelming customer feedback to include stats for the iconic characters over the past several years, and can also serve, in a pinch, as extra stat blocks for NPCs in an adventure or temporary replacement PCs for players whose characters, for whatever reason, get knocked out of play.
Anyway, to confirm the bit about set-pieces... they were basically too much trouble to maintain. They had an even stronger tie to the adventure (in theory) than most other articles, and as a result they, in theory, needed to be more integrated into the main adventure, and I (as the guy who handles the adventures themselves) didn't have time to do that, and Wes (as the guy who handles pretty much everything else in a Pathfinder) didn't have time to also familiarize himself with the adventure, and the authors certainly don't have the luxury of being inside of each other's heads.
So, banishing the set-pieces to the land of wind and ghosts lets us have a bit more room to make the adventure or the other articles expand more gracefully as they need it, and also removes one extra article from our plates and returns Pathfinder to the model it had for the first dozen or so volumes. The set-pieces were an experiment, and one that failed. They were also an attempt to open up Pathfinder to find new authors and to get shorter adventures in the AP, but that niche is now covered quite handily by the Pathfinder Society scenarios.
We haven't had these kinds of problems at all with the Pathfinder Journal or the pregenerated characters, and since they're both one the more smoothly-running elements of an AP, cutting them is like cutting off a hand. It's self-mutilation.
I will just describe what I know. CJ called me up and said he needed help moving something. As I pulled onto his street, I saw Daigle driving speedily away. I asked him why Daigle didn't stay and help, and he said Daigle had to get home to meet some carpet cleaning company. We went into the garage, where there were several large ice chests. I asked what in the heck they could be for, and he said a club fishing trip. We loaded the ice chests into his truck bed. He then asked me not to mention the trip to anybody, as he didn't want the uninvited to have hurt feelings. The whole thing seemed kind of odd, but now, in retrospect...
...now searching for his elven waybread...
You can stop looking. I ate it all.
And I'm still hungry. Those elven bakers are slacking.
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I don't think the fiction or the Pre-gens dilute anything.
You know when I QFT the above quote i thought about a line saying that I didn't agree with the diluted with fiction part just the fact that I thought that an article on magic items WOULD be dilution, but figured that it was only a minor disagreement with his main point and not worth commenting on because the main point that a magic item article would be dilution was sooo true, thanks for making me feel like an ass for not making that point now James :P
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You know when I QFT the above quote i thought about a line saying that I didn't agree with the diluted with fiction part just the fact that I thought that an article on magic items WOULD be dilution, but figured that it was only a minor disagreement with his main point and not worth commenting on because the main point that a magic item article would be dilution was sooo true, thanks for making me feel like an ass for not making that point now James :P
I don't think the fiction or the Pre-gens dilute anything.
Exactly, exactly what I was thinking. I hope you don't look like me as well...
I love the PF journals, I just don't want the amount of adventure in an AP to diminish.
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I will just describe what I know. CJ called me up and said he needed help moving something. As I pulled onto his street, I saw Daigle driving speedily away. I asked him why Daigle didn't stay and help, and he said Daigle had to get home to meet some carpet cleaning company. We went into the garage, where there were several large ice chests. I asked what in the heck they could be for, and he said a club fishing trip. We loaded the ice chests into his truck bed. He then asked me not to mention the trip to anybody, as he didn't want the uninvited to have hurt feelings. The whole thing seemed kind of odd, but now, in retrospect...
You promised not to say anything!
I will just describe what I know. CJ called me up and said he needed help moving something. As I pulled onto his street, I saw Daigle driving speedily away. I asked him why Daigle didn't stay and help, and he said Daigle had to get home to meet some carpet cleaning company. We went into the garage, where there were several large ice chests. I asked what in the heck they could be for, and he said a club fishing trip. We loaded the ice chests into his truck bed. He then asked me not to mention the trip to anybody, as he didn't want the uninvited to have hurt feelings. The whole thing seemed kind of odd, but now, in retrospect...You promised not to say anything!
Somebody appears to have slipped something into my coffee...better make another pot.
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Somebody appears to have slipped something into my coffee...better make another pot.I will just describe what I know. CJ called me up and said he needed help moving something. As I pulled onto his street, I saw Daigle driving speedily away. I asked him why Daigle didn't stay and help, and he said Daigle had to get home to meet some carpet cleaning company. We went into the garage, where there were several large ice chests. I asked what in the heck they could be for, and he said a club fishing trip. We loaded the ice chests into his truck bed. He then asked me not to mention the trip to anybody, as he didn't want the uninvited to have hurt feelings. The whole thing seemed kind of odd, but now, in retrospect...You promised not to say anything!
It was just a little weed-killer...
And here I thought it was some kind of truth potion.
You can stop looking. I ate it all.
And I'm still hungry. Those elven bakers are slacking.
Grrr. You know where I'm living.
Oh. Wait. That sounds weird for some reason.
"I know where you live. I know where your kids play. I know where your wife gets her hair done. Remember that when you think about crossing me."
's that it?
By the way: Some chaotic jester type raided your whole larder. I saw him when I was just passing through and some elf bread fell into my mouth.
I don't think the fiction or the Pre-gens dilute anything.
Of course you don't. But no matter - unrelated fiction (and pre-gens) still does. And the first couple of APs, at least, had unrelated fiction. But please let me know (since I currently ignore the fiction after I noticed it was entirely irrelevant to the APs) - is the fiction now finally related to the AP? For example, does the fiction in the Legacy of Fire AP actually take place in Quadira/Khatapesh, at the very least?
If so, then I will admit that fiction has a place in the APs. So, is the fiction (again, finally) related to the specific AP that it's found in?
Especially since, as I've mentioned many times elsewhere, the fact of the mater is that on a monthly schedule there's a physical time limit to the amount of time a person can dedicate to developing the adventures. /snip/ Fiction, for example, helps us maintain an AP's presence in book stores
I'm sure there's many reasons why. But all completely irrelevant when talking specifically about the topic of dilution, as I was. *shrug* You're better of saying that yeah, it does dilute the AP, but there are greater benefits that make up for the dilution (but then Marketing will give you a smack, I guess...). :D
Increasing adventure length would NOT cure the problems that you say arise when the adventures are cut for length,
You've said that before, and it's not what I was talking about. See your recent past comments on the removal of set pieces and how it will improve the AP.
but figured that it was only a minor disagreement with his main point and not worth commenting on because the main point that a magic item article would be dilution was sooo true,
And you figured correctly. (But I notice James does jump in and defend the fiction at any and every opportunity!) :D
