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Okay, so here's the deal.
I was all set on running a Pathfinder game tonight, level 7 pregens playing through the "Shards of Eberron" campaign arc from Dungeon 123-125. I sent an over abundance of invitations expecting lots of people to be busy with work commitments or other social things, usually 12 invitations turns out about 4-6 players.
Well not tonight, apparently tonight was the one night where NOBODY made any plans. Suddenly I've got 9 players! (I've had to uninvite 3 who just hadn't responded). So I'm in a bit of a pickle. Since I was pre-generating the party for people (so we could just jump in and play) that means I'm pregenerating 9 characters (thank god for PHB2).
The Party:
1) Sir Steelheart* - Warforged Knight - A mix of Tin man and don Quixote
2) Merisiel* - Elf Rogue - Banished from the Thuranni dragonmarked house
3) Lini Brinshin* - Halfling Druid - She's got a Tiger animal companion
4) Jim Darkmagic - Human Warlock - Dangerously curious explorer/adventurer
5) Trapper - Shifter Ranger - Focusing on two-weapon fighting
6) Kif - Changeling Cleric of the Traveller - Artifice and Travel Domains
7) McGirk McGirk* - Dwarf Monk - Brawler, Drinker, Lover.
8) Selina Frost* - Elf Sorceress (Water Bloodline) - Cold Girl
9) Jessica Fletcher* - Human Fighter - Consumate Archer
* - Characters denoted with a star are relatively new to P&P role-playing games having only played 1 game before.
What I need are some ways of adapting the adventure for 9 players. I'm thinking of scaling up the size of the maps so each square = 10 feet and upping the HD of some monsters. I'm leery of adding more monsters since combat with this many players will already take up so much time.
Does anyone have any advice on GMing such a large group (especially a group with so many new players?)
Does anyone have any advice on how to adapt the adventure for such a massive group?
Do people have time saving advice to deal with running the game efficiently so that players who aren't in the spotlight don't get overly bored?
Help me paizo-boards kenobi! You're my only hope.
I'm not sure what making the squares equal 10 feet will accomplish, it would seem to me that it would make the map more claustrophobic with so many minis on the map.
I'm not familiar with the particular adventure, so I can't really give any story specific advice, but if I were you, I'd take the opportunity to just be as brutal and clever as possible. When you make a character, you likely have a concept in mind, then min/max (oops is that a dirty word still... I mean optimize) it so it works as well as it possibly can.
Well, do that to your bad guys. Maybe add one bard or one wizard or whatever it is you need. Then execute the wicked TPK inducing combos you know you've always wanted to try.
With 9 players I wouldn't hold back at all (especially if this is a one-shot adventure).
With this many players, you'll have to keep them on a shorter leash when its time for discussions. There will likely be room for long discussion at every decision point. You'll have to make someone do the deciding pretty quick. But not too quick, make sure everyone gets one or two says.
I would also ban rule quibbling for this session. Write the question down and argue it later, but no rules debates over one minute long.
Update us tomorrow and let us know what you learned :)
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Does anyone have any advice on GMing such a large group (especially a group with so many new players?)
Team each inexperienced player with an experienced one. Looking at your list, though, it looks like the ratio's 2 to 1.
Does anyone have any advice on how to adapt the adventure for such a massive group?
Honestly, don't. Run the encounters as is. Here's the reason: the increase in so-called "firepower" with so many PCs will be offset by the slow down in time as the newbies struggle what to do.
Do people have time saving advice to deal with running the game efficiently so that players who aren't in the spotlight...
Set up a timer. 1-3 per player. If they don't know what to do or are spending too much thought, move on to the next player.
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I'm not sure what making the squares equal 10 feet will accomplish, it would seem to me that it would make the map more claustrophobic with so many minis on the map.
*snip*
The adventure itself is mostly a dungeon crawl, and the dungeon is pretty cramped as is. With 9 players there wouldn't be a lot of room to manoeuvre around. If I increase the size of the maps then there would be more opportunity to move about.
I'm a little worried by the lack of challenge in the adventure due to 9 players having very effective wolf packing abilities (throw in a Druid's pets...) and suddenly they surround any creature they come across.
I might throw a dragon at them as they airship back to Sharn, it'd be interesting to see how the PCs handle it.
Thanks for the advice all, keep it coming and I'll definitely update everybody on how it goes.
The adventure itself is mostly a dungeon crawl, and the dungeon is pretty cramped as is. With 9 players there wouldn't be a lot of room to manoeuvre around. If I increase the size of the maps then there would be more opportunity to move about.
Ah, I'm totally with you. You are doubling each dimension, whereas I thought you were halving it. My mistake. Good idea.
I'm a little worried by the lack of challenge in the adventure due to 9 players having very effective wolf packing abilities (throw in a Druid's pets...) and suddenly they surround any creature they come across.
You might cherry pick the classes to avoid those with troublesome mechanics or lots of dice. For instance you could ditch the Druid so there's no animal companion. Ditch the ranger for the companion and the two weapon fighting (or specify it as Archer).
Add bottlenecks to the map so that players get more "wasted" rounds, to make rounds go faster.
Adding multiple enemies is fine. Simply use the same attack rolls for the same types.
Add enemies that only certain PCs will be able to target, such as flying enemies. (Or place enemies on a balcony, and some players will have to search for the correct means by which to get up there.)
Giving loads of money instead of treasure will help prevent quibbling about who gets what. If it's a continuing deal, advise players when the next session they will be allowed to re-equip and to plan their characters accordingly - on downtime.
Okay, so here's the deal.
Does anyone have any advice on GMing such a large group (especially a group with so many new players?)
Make it a training session by putting the PCs in squads with a mix of junior and senior players in each squad. The squads fight in shifts. One squad rests in safe area while other squad proceeds. While Squad A is working, have senior players in Squad B explain various points to the Squad B juniors, catch up notes, observe tactics, etc. Rinse and repeat. Let both Squads participate in the finale... which might be augmented by a stray dragon or some other plot twisting beast...
Then announce that you will host two groups (each on a different schedule) and let the players randomly determine membership or pick their teams... Of course, this means the rest of your free time evaporates due to running two groups :)
You didn't run combat with 10 foot squares, did you?
My advice? Break them into two groups. See if you can get one of the three who didn't respond to come also (so 2 groups of 5 each).
I've run a group of this size (actually a tad larger) once, and it was a nightmare. Combats are laboriously long. Trying to give each player time to "shine" is a chore.
There's a reason adventures are written with 4-6 players in mind.
It's great that you have so many willing to participate. Take full advantage. Just don't lump them all together at once. Split them up and see how each one fares. You could even have them come face to face at some point (set it up in advance so that both groups can be there at the same time).
Good luck, whichever way you decide to go. /salute!
Here's something I do to make non-combat hold the attention of large groups:
Have little scripts for different things in the various encounters. You have nine players, so try to include 9 objects of interest or more.
Take turns during investigation/dungeon crawling and have the players read the card for whatever they're investigating. For example, if a character says she's going to check out a certain locked chest, hand her the card that describes the chest and have her read it aloud.
I use maptool so the descriptions are all mouseovers, but cards should work just as well.
What this does is help everyone stay involved and attentive during these scenes.
Also, with a large group, initiative management is key. If someone isn't ready, delay their turn. The more you can diminish the wait for each player between turns, the more fun the game is.
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Hey guys just a quick update to tell you how it all went.
I had two players cancel so I had a slightly more manageable number at 7 (I had three more people ask if they could join but that would have upped my PC count to 10, and that's just 1 pregen too many, I had to prepare the adventure after all).
Still 7 players (5 of them very new to the game) was quite a feat in and of itself.
Here's how I kept the game flowing -
Before the game I had my laptop open to:
http://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/
and
http://www.d20srd.org
I had a bunch of tabs open with the Monsters that I was using. My miniatures were unavailable and I didn't really have time to mock up any counters so I decided to just sketch out the dungeon as the characters found the rooms.
I had a bunch of index cards with the PC names written on them, and the monsters ready to go (I grouped similar monsters together of course to further speed up play).
During PCs turns if they took too long to make a decision then I'd threaten to delay their action until end of round. That usually provoked a choice from them. Still I was very generous with the amount of time as they were often unsure as to what certain spells/feats/abilities could do.
Some highlights from the game include -
Halfling Druid PC: "I cast dominate animal on the T-Rex. Can it eat the savage halfling ranger?"
Me: "Yes. Yes it can."
Halfling Druid PC: "Ooh! I make it do that."
Dwarf Monk PC: "All those halfling warriors are entangled by undergrowth?"
Me: "Yes they are."
Dwarf Monk PC: "I use my potion of fire breath and set them on fire."
Me: *rolls dismal reflex further hampered by entangle spell*
"Four crispy halflings well done!"
Shifter Ranger PC: "I run down the hallway alone and open the sarcophagus."
Me: "Okay, you do so causing the trap to activate. A massive stone block drops from the ceiling and slides down the slope towards you. It'll crush you within 4 rounds. Make a Will Save."
Shifter Ranger PC: *fail*
Me: "Inside the sarcophagus is a mummy, and you've become paralyzed by despair. I'll tell you what roll a d4."
Shifter Ranger PC: I rolled a 3.
Me: "The good news is you'll have one round to turn around and realise you'll be crushed to death by a massive rock."
Halfling Druid PC: "Can I cast air walk on my attack tiger?"
Me: "Yes, yes you can."
Halfling Druid PC: "I cast air walk on my attack tiger so it can charge the dragon!"
Me: "Okay you ride your flying attack tiger off the air ship and it pounces the Red Dragon, roll your attacks! That previous sentence makes this game the best game in the history of ever."
Good ideas here. *furiously taking notes*
(Our regular gaming group on Tuesday nights can creep up to 9 players, with 7 being normal. It gets very tedious, especially as we have a few that are notoriously slow on their turn. How do you cut out guys you've played with for years? - can't seem to get them to split off. This is really rough on a work night.)
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I promised to run a sequel game next week for the seven that showed up and a SECOND game for the 5 that wanted to show up but couldn't (or I had to uninvite).
Ultimately it's a question of fun return.
If 6 people have a great time, but 10 people have an average time, it's better to make two groups of 5. Essentially you're reducing the fun of 10 people rather than increasing the fun of 4. (Specious mathematics I know).
I don't mind doing a lot of the GM lifting with so many new players, but at some point I expect a return on the investment and hope that I'll get some new GMs out of this so that I can have a turn playing. One of my experienced players wants to run something over the weekend so that's fairly sauceome.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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My regular group is 9 players. We don't always all show up, but it does happen. When I DM a published adventure, I typically run the combat encounters as written with these additions:
* Multiply henchmen by 1.5. If there are 6 goblins in the encounter, I up it to 9 goblins.
* Advance the BBEG 1-2 levels, depending on the average party level OR provide him with a "toady" of a level equivalent to the average party level.
Non-combat encounters remain the same. No changes necessary.
Things tend to work out pretty well for our group when I do this as DM.
Our other DM actually runs the adventures as written, with no changes, which can make for an easy time of things if everyone shows up. If you don't mind an easier time for the party, this could work fine for you.
We are lucky, though, as we don't have any newer players in the group. If someone takes a long time to act, no one seems to mind and if the person takes too long, the group self-polices and just has the indecisive player "hold" his action.
We are lucky, though, as we don't have any newer players in the group. If someone takes a long time to act, no one seems to mind and if the person takes too long, the group self-polices and just has the indecisive player "hold" his action.
No newer players either, just a couple of slow-pokes. We nudge, but our of game time, so it has little effect. Like the other adjustments.