My wife is a first time player in a game that I am DMing. She decided on playing a Druid (with a single level of Ranger), and I have been helping her make choices on her character. So far I feel like we’re doing fairly well with her build, but the biggest problem we have is I am not terribly familiar with Druids. I know they can be pretty darned powerful with the right build, but I’m not sure which are the best feat choices, etc. She’s a human and we’re using flaws from UA, so we’ve got some feats to burn. The Ranger level opened up her weapon choices, and she’s wielding a bow – the idea is she will be ranged support and casting along with the Ranger tracking stuff.
Right now we have picked Point Blank and Precise Shot. I’m not sure how much further she will go down that path, but I felt like she needed at least those two if she were going to be any help at all as an archer.
I also have her with Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning. These seemed like no-brainers with her spontaneous summon nature’s ally ability.
What I am looking for now are other “must-have” feats for a Druid. Natural Spell seems a given as soon as she qualifies for it, but outside of that I’m not sure. We’ve got access to pretty much everything 3.5, so the feat choices are a bit overwhelming :-)
What I am looking for specifically are feats that boost her summoning ability. I figure some of the metamagic feats might be useful, but can you apply those on the fly to spontaneous casting, or would she have to memorize summon nature’s ally with the metamagic applied to make it work?
Any suggestions are most welcome. She is a bit on the fence about the game, but she loves me so she’s giving it the ol’ college try. I figure the least I can do is help her build as effective and cool a character as possible.
Not sure I can help much with the build, but I can ask you to clarify what level the character is?
You've indicated 'one level of ranger', but how many other levels, and are druid related prestige class levels something which you are prepared to consider?
And which books (if any) do you ban from your game?
Sorry - the character is 2nd level (Ranger 1 / Druid 1) and we're building it at level 2. The plan will be to stick with Druid from here on. I'm not sure about prestige classes, but she will already be a level behind the curve with her animal companion, spell casting, and (eventually) wild shape, so I don't think she'll multiclass any more than that. Druid related prestige classes are a possibility, but they'd have to not give up much of the Druid coolies to be worth it in my mind.
As for books - mostly the core and completes. However, as I said, we have access to most of the books and I have a "run it past me" policy as DM with a fairly liberal allowance on most things.
Psionics are out, for what that's worth.
In a short low level campaign the level of ranger is nice but if you expect this character to make it to 8+ she would be better off going straight druid and just taking track.
Druids are awesome but require a ton of research to play well (and notes at the gaming table). You have to know all of your spells, all of your summons, and all of your animals forms. You have to know when to switch to animal form (and which one) and wade into combat, and when to stand back and blast.
You already have the basic feats covered so the rest is gravy. Quickened spell is nice for fast buffing but can't be used until the mid to high levels.
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At lower levels, that 1 level dip into Ranger is going to be nice. Better BAB, Weapons, another +2 on Ref/Fort.
At the higher levels, the dropped caster level will hurt more than help, IMO.
As for feats, a couple of options to pursue:
As you said, Aug Summoning is very nice for a druid, especially if you're going to use critters rather than yourself or companion for melee threat. Also consider Augment Elemental from Magic of Eberron (i think). It's like another Aug Summoning, but specifically for elementals (the best melee threat on your Summon Nature's Ally lists, for the most part.)
A few metamagic feats won't go wrong, either. Extend Spell, for those 2nd and 3rd level buff spells (Barkskin, Girallon's Blessing, etc) is excellent, and Rapid Spell (Complete Mage) will let you get those Summons off in a standard action.
Reserve Feats are also an option (from Complete Mage) especially the Summon Elemental one, (summon an elemental at will, so long as you have a summon spell available, as a spontaneous summoner, thats as long as you have the proper spell level available.) as it will grant you a standard action Meat Shield, as well as the utility of having elemental powers available at will.
-t
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On the prestige class question, I have found that most of the ones out there aren't that useful. I think druids work best without any prestige class or multiclassing at all.
Beyond that, playing a druid can be tricky in terms of preparation and rules knowledge (as pointed out upthread), but making an effectively built druid is not. Druids are one of those classes that are simply effective right out of the box. Just take what feels obvious and she will do fine.
With wild shapes, my only piece of advice is to keep an eye on armor class. There are some attractive forms out there, but when a druid takes them, they lose their armor bonus in favor of the natural armor bonus and Dex of the form they are choosing. In some cases that is awesome, but in the case of some of the big brutish animals, the druid can become quite vulnerable. She won't want to lose her druid because she picked a form with a lousy AC.
My 2c.
For a new player, the druid is basically a "summon critter after critter" character with some distinct flavor and great competence in the wilds.
Then the druid class level of 5 comes along, and everything changes. There are more than a few excellent animal forms in the MM for the druid to wild shape into. And each one has its own set of ability scores, movement modes, AC bonuses, attack modes and so forth. I cannot emphasize enough the value of investing the time with your friend to make up index cards or "mini character sheets" with the pertinent information for each desired animal form on it. Anything from snakes to rats to eagles to dire animals to dinosaurs will end up on her list, not to mention various plants and elementals.
IMO the previous posters have nicely covered feat recommendations.
Thanks for all the advice, guys. I was planning on making some mini character sheets for her Summon lists anyway, and I had the thought that doing something similar for her once she gets wildshape wouldn't be a bad thing.
The main reasons we were dipping into Ranger were for the Track feat and for bow proficiency. I was a little concerned it might put her a bit behind the power curve, so perhaps I'll reconsider the build. We'll have to put off Augment Summoning until level three, but more spells, moving up her animal companion, and getting her one step closer to wild shape might be worth it. I'll have to see what I can do with that.
What I am looking for now are other “must-have” feats for a Druid. Natural Spell seems a given as soon as she qualifies for it, but outside of that I’m not sure. We’ve got access to pretty much everything 3.5, so the feat choices are a bit overwhelming :-)
I know you mentioned you're looking to augment the summoning ability, but I can't help but recommend the wild/natural spell feat (name escapes me right now as I'm away form the books); where you can cast while in wild shape.
I know as a DM that it's incredibly hard to target smaller and smaller animal forms that are flying and merrily casting away or summoning away at my squad of monsters. Especially if you've got something that isn't the smartest creature in the books.
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Thanks for all the advice, guys. I was planning on making some mini character sheets for her Summon lists anyway, and I had the thought that doing something similar for her once she gets wildshape wouldn't be a bad thing.
The main reasons we were dipping into Ranger were for the Track feat and for bow proficiency. I was a little concerned it might put her a bit behind the power curve, so perhaps I'll reconsider the build. We'll have to put off Augment Summoning until level three, but more spells, moving up her animal companion, and getting her one step closer to wild shape might be worth it. I'll have to see what I can do with that.
You could make her an elf, and then burn one feat on track. That is exactly what I did with my last druid.
It sounds like you have feats covered well - augment, natural spell, but meta-quicken means prepping a very high level spell slot to save a casting time.
Look for feats that will carry into her new forms, since her physical stats will change frequently. Improved Init, Dodge, and Evasion come to mind.
Warshaper Pc from Complete Warrior is awesome. If she goes that route she will need to summon less. But it might be contrary to a ranged style. Summons are more in sync with archery.
A Druid X/Ranger is a powerful build. I have one. Gestalt on top of it. Druid 15/Ranger 10/Warshaper 5. It challenges the DM a lot, so I'm close to retirement.
I played an elf druid archer, and had a wardog (riding dog) animal companion, so I just let him Track for me.
He was extremely versatile. He had the 2nd best AC of the party (1st was his dog!), could tank, heal, battlefield control, blast, summon, use diplomacy, scout (close to max Listen/Spot with awesome Wis), translator (spent points on all the elemental languages), transporter (via plant spells and/or mass polymorphing everyone into birds), buff, dispel (I took Improved Counterspell--and it saved our bacon A LOT! I lost a flame strike to counter a fireball, lightning bolt, etc.).
But the key was to have all your regular wildshapes FULLY statted, all your common summons FULLY statted, including any normal buffs (Augment Summoning, Bull Str, Magic Fang, etc.).
Playing a druid is like playing 3 or more characters at once (the actual druid, her animal companion, and the summoned nasties), so be prepared because your turn is going to take really long in combat, and you don't want combat to grind to a halt because you're so complex. It may not always make the most tactical sense, but it really speeds up combat if you just summon 1 big critter instead of 1d3 or 1d4+1 lesser critters, especially if they all have claw/claw/bite/rake/rake/cleave.
You could make her an elf, and then burn one feat on track. That is exactly what I did with my last druid.
Funny story that. If you are interested in the gory interpersonal details they are spoilered below.
One of my wife’s defining personality traits is a desire to be unique – she never likes to do the “popular” thing. She really wants to forge her own way. I told everyone else we are playing with that she had first dibs on character choice, and that they'd need to work around her. I let here look through the PHB and she decided she wanted to be an Elf Druid and from our discussion I knew she wanted to be a bit Rangery. We did just what Celestial Healer suggested and burned a feat on track.
I knew a Druid wouldn't be the easiest thing for a first timer, but she's very sharp and I thought it better to have her play something she was genuinely interested in playing rather than selecting something “easy” to play.
Anyway, I let everyone know that she was playing an Elf Druid and asked that everyone else come up with something different. No problem – everyone came up with unique and interesting characters except for one of my friends.
He’s the most min/maxy powergamer of our group. We all like him personally, and he isn’t a pure number cruncher – he does roleplay, it is just that he tweaks his character to an annoying degree. He’s also a veteran player who ALWAYS seems to play some variation of an Elf Ranger. I swear he could start out with a Dwarf Sorcerer and somehow he’d make it an Elf Ranger.
First off, he argued hard for psionics. It’s a Pathfinder campaign and even though I personally like psionics, I felt it didn’t quite fit the world. However my friend said that psionics was the only way he’d play a caster, and since an arcanist was the big hole in the party, I thought “what the heck.”
He comes back with a Half-Giant Druid with no intention of taking a psionic class. After some debate, I put the DM smack down on him and told him no psionics, and he had to make something else.
He ended up making an Elf Cleric with an animistic/nature-y bent (raised as part of a Shoanti tribe). After the first game session my wife was really irritated because he kept stealing her thunder – not intentionally, but he’s a 30 year veteran of the game and it was her first session ever.
After some discussion with my wife, I realized just how upset she was by the whole thing. I had several talks with the long term player as did other friends in the group. He could not see the problem.
Finally I asked him to rebuild his character as not-an-elf. To sweeten the deal I offered him a freebie bonus feat to smooth things over. It was a huge sticking point – he gave me an “I’ll have to think about it” response. When I told my wife about it, she looked at me and said “I’ll rebuild my character – give me the bonus feat.” So that’s what we did. The 30 year veteran who has played elves for decades gets to keep his elf, and the first time player has to run her second choice. But whatever, she seems happy with the bonus feat.
So yeah, the long and the short of it is the Elf Druid option is out.
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You could make her an elf, and then burn one feat on track. That is exactly what I did with my last druid.Funny story that. If you are interested in the gory interpersonal details they are spoilered below.
** spoiler omitted **...
Play a halfling! Fun to play and deadly with slings!
Or you could see if she would like to play a forest gnome.
I would agree with others that if you would like to have the bow and track that you could play an elf. However, the -2 con is tough. If you are not using the errata though, the con doesn't matter as much once you hit lvl 6-7 in druid since you will be able to wild shape most of the time. Of course, if you are wild shaped most of the time you wouldn't need a bow.
If you are definitely wanting an archer though an elf with the alternate class feature that swaps out wildshaping for the ability to take on boosts that replicate animal abilities might be a good way to go. (Shapeshifter variant from PHB2).
As for tracking, I would recommend taking an animal companion that can track and use the Handle Animal skill to train them to track for you. Pretty good flavor for play as well.
As for the feats, the only MUST HAVE is Natural Spell at lvl 6. (which you had).
After that there are some good choices, but nothing is a must have to be one of the best classes in the game.
Initiate of Nature (PGtF) is a great choice if it is available.
If you are looking for stuff to buff up summoning, which is a good way to go, I would recommend any or all of the following: Augment Summoning, Greenbound Summoning (LEoF), Rashemi Elemental Summoning (UE), Ashbound (ECS), Beckon the Frozen (frost), Imbued Summoning (PHB2), Initiate of Malar (PGtF).
Wild shaping and Spellcasting are the other 'categories' of feats that you might want to look into.
Anyway, a great resource if you are interested is:
The Druid Handbook
Sean Mahoney
Complete Divine - Zen Archery.
I had an elven druid who took this feat and he was absolutely devastating with it.
Additionally, I would recommend against the level of Ranger as well. It really isn't adding much to the build and is slowing down the spellcasting and class abilities that are so darn powerful.
Sean Mahoney
Complete Divine - Zen Archery.
I had an elven druid who took this feat and he was absolutely devastating with it.
It's a great feat for divine archers or psionic archers (like soulbow), since it reduces MAD (multi attribute dependency).
Sean Mahoney
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As for the feats, the only MUST HAVE is Natural Spell at lvl 6. (which you had).
Not if you choose to use this druid variant.
You could aim for shadowdancer, cause nothing says 'RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!' like not seeing the T-rex until it's to late...
I glanced over most of what was posted looking for a few things...
What kind of Druid is she? Druids are relatively diverse, most fall under one of the following...
1. Summoner/Controller(Caster)- (Summon Nature's Ally, Entangle, Domain(no companion), High mental attributes)
2. Animal Companion based - (Mounted Combat, Mounted Casting, Mounted Archery, Buff spells)
3. Shapeshifter based - (High physical attributes, geared for melee, companion optional)
As for the level of Ranger...
Take the NATURAL BOND Feat to "cover" 3 levels of multi-class concerning the Druid's Animal Companion. So if she finds herself needing more BaB she could dip up to 2 more times without her companion suffering.
Thanks for all the help guys - there is some really good stuff here.
In the end, we decided to skip the level of Ranger. After weighing the options it just didn't help enough over the long haul.
We had to spend a couple of feats on some slightly non-druidy things, but she is the party tracker and is wielding a great bow (to quite an effect, actually). We've focused her on summoning/battlefield control magic, and next level she will be picking up Augment Summoning. At 6th we're looking at Natural Spell, and at 9th probably Augment Elemental. I am thinking that after another level or two, she will be quite badass.
Thanks for all the help guys - there is some really good stuff here.
In the end, we decided to skip the level of Ranger. After weighing the options it just didn't help enough over the long haul.
We had to spend a couple of feats on some slightly non-druidy things, but she is the party tracker and is wielding a great bow (to quite an effect, actually). We've focused her on summoning/battlefield control magic, and next level she will be picking up Augment Summoning. At 6th we're looking at Natural Spell, and at 9th probably Augment Elemental. I am thinking that after another level or two, she will be quite badass.
As she gets more comfortable with playing, her character's abilities and the critters she can summon, I would expect quite a nightmare for your baddies. ^_^ Which is, admittedly, about one of the kewlest things about the game is when some one pretty new to the game discovers stuff. :)