Fair warning, bit of a rant….
So here I am, going back and fourth between setting up a new Robotech game, which has giving me endless musings when I look up and realize that Pathfinder is coming out sooner as opposed to later. So now I’m musing about Pathfinder, a little. Specifically I’m thinking about character classes and 3.5/3.0 classes and what if any updating they’ll need. During play testing my group played a lot of older stuff with the beta classes, and we came to some conclusions, but the problem is that 3P is getting closer to 3.5 then even I thought. So, assuming that not every publisher is going to update their older books/classes I think we should come up with some assumed standards for how or which classes need to be updated. And with the previews out I think we can at lest have an educated discussion on the subject.
So were am I going with this, well I guess I like this thread to report what people think about updating older classes, do they need it, are they fine as is, and what if anything do such updates need. For the sake of the discussion I’d prefer we stay away from arguments over if more classes are needed, in the end for me I like more classes, and tend to dislike switching class abilities, unless they are very specific to a race or area, and often I don’t like the thinking that oh well the tribe’s shaman is just a Druid, done. You may disagree and your point of view is every bit as valid as mine, but lets just assume we want to update older classes, at lest here in this tiny corner of the web.
I’ll start first with a look at what looking at fro ‘standards’ of upgrade.
Martial Classes, no not in the 4e sense of the word, but rather in terms of classes that are combat oriented but, well for lack of a better word, mundane in origin. Of the Core classes only the Fighter really fits this type, the rogue being what I call the skilled type, and the paladin being more divine then not. Classes such as these, say the Archer from S.S. or 3 arrows for the king, are both easy and hard to up grade, easy because we know what has to be done, a class feature every level, hard because should we simply double up, copy part of the Fighter class and add on or come up with new abilities are selves?
Caster types: I’ve seen a few update attempts for 3pp casters, and for the most part like them, and as with martial classes they should get something every level, but a debate rages at my game table over gaining a new spell counts or, as I see it, gaining a new level of spells. For the record most players in the former camp do not like the 3P upgrade.
Skilled types, here I think is where doubling up works best. A skilled class becomes a very specialized skill class. Think of WoW Tinker class, although he works fairly well with Beta rules, I gave him a few extra feats, with the new core rules I’m less sure of that, and think perhaps he works fine as is.
I’ll give better specifics to this latter but as a quickly report here are a few of GR 3.X classes that I thought worked fine with Pathfinder. I should note that while for the most part the issue of power creep existed with WotC, GR was a clear exception.
Assassin: Way overpowered in 3.5 much less 3.0, now I see him as a valid option now.
Shaman: needs a little up dating, in terms of power I feel, and I’m thinking of adding a few class features from Mongooses version of the Shaman.
Witch: same as the Shaman, more so even.
Cavalier: now this class works well as is, though I’d actually take away the Knightly aspects to the class (I prefer the Knight from R&R Excalibur) and allow the class to be a more universal mounted warrior type then a Knight arcatype. As such he works well in OA settings as well as a ‘Barbarian Hoard’ mounted warrior from the steppes.
I’ll add other classes later, and I’d like to here what classes you’d like and how you’re dealing with updating.
TTFN DRE
Two versions of marshal so far. MDT's is more combat focused and mine is more buff driven.
The noble class by mongoose would be interesting to see too.
Two versions of marshal so far. MDT's is more combat focused and mine is more buff driven.
The noble class by mongoose would be interesting to see too.
I've seen both versions of the Marshal, I tend to perfer your version, mainly becuase thats how I saw the concept for the class. Though I have to admit the MDT's has some good features and ablities, some of which might be usable for other upgrades. However, although the Marashal and most of the OA classes could use the upgrade, I tend to feel that most of WotC classes need little upgrade. Hexblade I'm looking at you.
TTFN DRE
Ditto. Trailblazer by Badaxe should be out by then ;-)Once the book is out I planed to update some of the classes my group uses from other sources as well. But I was going to wait until the PFRPG was out before even starting to do anything.
Maybe your both right, I guess I was just feeling the waters as to if anyone had begun.
AS to the Trailblazer, due tell I had not heard of this "product?"
TTFN DRE
As to the Trailblazer, due tell I had not heard of this "product?"
Two versions of marshal so far. MDT's is more combat focused and mine is more buff driven.
The noble class by mongoose would be interesting to see too.
I've seen both versions of the Marshal, I tend to perfer your version, mainly becuase thats how I saw the concept for the class. Though I have to admit the MDT's has some good features and ablities, some of which might be usable for other upgrades. However, although the Marashal and most of the OA classes could use the upgrade, I tend to feel that most of WotC classes need little upgrade. Hexblade I'm looking at you.
TTFN DRE
MDT's is more capable on his own which is more attractive to a lot of players.
Mine takes a bit of work to be a decent 2nd line combatant, but makes a fine support character.
Support characters are definitely not everyone's cup of tea. Nobles tend to fall into this boat also.
I added a third Marshall to the Thread...mine is more 2nd tier as well...and blends some of the dragon shaman auras with the Marshall and adds a version of the Warpriest Rally Cry ability and my own take on Inspiring Speach
Two versions of marshal so far. MDT's is more combat focused and mine is more buff driven.
The noble class by mongoose would be interesting to see too.
I've seen both versions of the Marshal, I tend to perfer your version, mainly becuase thats how I saw the concept for the class. Though I have to admit the MDT's has some good features and ablities, some of which might be usable for other upgrades. However, although the Marashal and most of the OA classes could use the upgrade, I tend to feel that most of WotC classes need little upgrade. Hexblade I'm looking at you.
TTFN DRE
MDT's is more capable on his own which is more attractive to a lot of players.
Mine takes a bit of work to be a decent 2nd line combatant, but makes a fine support character.
Support characters are definitely not everyone's cup of tea. Nobles tend to fall into this boat also.
Trailblazer seems intersting, but honestly some of his goals seemed to have been accomplished by Pathfinder, the rest not sure if he can 'fix' the system and still keep the old stuff useful.
As to the Marashal never understood why everyone asssumes to be good he has to be the "lone wolf" type of a class. I'm working with one of my players upgrading the Archer class, he's in effect playing up his support position, in the back, but hitting almost every turn the bady in the front line.
TTFN DRE