Blazej makes a good point that 3.5 no one else can cast the required spells, nor come from permanent items. Small but present difference.
I think that it is a bigger difference than that, especially because of the short durations of both divine favor and divine power. If the buffs are occurring during battle, then the PF RPG cleric is in battle one round quicker than the 3.5 cleric. Given the average duration of combat, I think that makes the short buff time quite advantageous.
Do the people who think DP was nerfed too much or too little have an alternate version they would like to propose?
I'm starting to feel the new DP isn't so bad. A lot of good arguments have been made in this thread. If you want to make it better you could houserule giving DF and DP sacred bonus instead of luck bonus. This way it would stack with prayer.
I think your OP was good. I guess the removal of adding to CMB checks was specifically designed to limit things like CMB ...and limit bonus to damage when fighting with two handed weapons.Th new DP gives more flexibility sonce you now can use range weapons and get a bonus to attack and damage.
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It was a good point - though truthfully I more consider it the difference between a 1st level slot and a 5th level slot (quickened divine favor seems very popular). So not faster, but "cheaper".
If you want to make it better you could houserule giving DF and DP sacred bonus instead of luck bonus. This way it would stack with prayer.
Hey Zark that was a pretty stupid suggestion....
Yes it was. The problem is, compare DP with DF. What does a cleric get?Some temp hit points and one more attack that does not stack with haste.
So a cleric casts DF and is hasted (activates his boots of speed or get hasted by wizard) he gets
DF + one extra attack with any weapon he is holding and a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves. And movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet.
Problem is DF and haste. Perhaps DF is too good. Or Dp not good enough for a 4 level spell.
If you want to make it better you could houserule giving DF and DP sacred bonus instead of luck bonus. This way it would stack with prayer.Hey Zark that was a pretty stupid suggestion....
Perhaps DF is too good.
This.
And I liked the suggestion actually.
I'm not overly upset about the spell. I'm waiting to see the final book to see how it all works out. I am somewhat upset that the idea to "fix" the fighter and rogue comes at the expense of the cleric. Or any class. Cleric just seems to be the target by pathfinder.
Likely because it was the most powerful class in the 3.5 PHB.
If you want to make it better you could houserule giving DF and DP sacred bonus instead of luck bonus. This way it would stack with prayer.Hey Zark that was a pretty stupid suggestion....
Perhaps DF is too good.This.
And I liked the suggestion actually.
Thanx. What do you mean by "This"?
It seems like Divine Power goes out of its way to avoid just giving a flat bonus to strength. Instead of "...you gain a +2 luck bonus to strength for every three levels..." we get "...you gain a +1 damage bonus on attack and damage rolls and a +1 on strength and strength-based skill checks...". Now this does give you the benefit of ranged attacks, but doesn't include CMB checks. I'm wondering if the removal of adding to CMB checks was an oversight or was specifically designed to limit the kinds of things that to CMB (which isn't much right now).
We just have to wait and see if DP is the same in the final as it is in the beta. With the new Power attack it's obvious that DP not giving a bonus to BAB was a good idea. It's not quite clear how CMB/CMD works. We have to wait until the 13:th.