Anyone following the Iranian election?
They have had to reign Ahmadinejad in a few times. I think even they would like to see a change of guard. At least someone a little easier to control.
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No, they'll let him win, just like they let Hatami win. Why not? It's not like he can actually do anything they don't like, is it?The mullahs will either:
a) Do nothing if Ahdidadog is winning easily, or...
b) disqualify Moussavi on some technicality if Adinnerjacket is losing...
Yeah, true, and when Hatami seemed like he really meant it when he tried to reform stuff, well, I hear he's enjoying retirement...
I was basing my thoughts on their annual "banning of the pro-western political parties" ritual they so enjoy there...
I am sure I am just being overly optimistic if not poorly informed. I think there could be real change with Mir Hossain Moussavi. Maybe we could really normalize relations with Iran.
Now about North Korea…
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Overly optimistic. That's the one. The President in Iran has no real power. The Mullahs run the show there.
Then why is what Ahmadinijad says about Israel, or the Holocaust, or nukes so important? You (generic you) can't have it both ways. Either he has power and we should care, or he hasn't and he's just making noise and we should watch what the Mullahs say.
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Overly optimistic. That's the one. The President in Iran has no real power. The Mullahs run the show there.Then why is what Ahmadinijad says about Israel, or the Holocaust, or nukes so important? You (generic you) can't have it both ways. Either he has power and we should care, or he hasn't and he's just making noise and we should watch what the Mullahs say.
I've never been to worried about what Imadinnerjacket says. The Mullahs prefer to fight their little war through their proxies (Hamas, Hizbullah), but, I also don't doubt for a second they'd give their proxies a low yield nuke, either...
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I've never been to worried about what Imadinnerjacket says. The Mullahs prefer to fight their little war through their proxies (Hamas, Hizbullah), but, I also don't doubt for a second they'd give their proxies a low yield nuke, either...Overly optimistic. That's the one. The President in Iran has no real power. The Mullahs run the show there.Then why is what Ahmadinijad says about Israel, or the Holocaust, or nukes so important? You (generic you) can't have it both ways. Either he has power and we should care, or he hasn't and he's just making noise and we should watch what the Mullahs say.
That one I do doubt. They want to live as much as the next guy. If there's a mushroom cloud anywhere near Israel, Iran turns into a very smooth plain of glass. Leaders are rarely willing to die for their cause. That's what footsoldiers are for.
It makes me laugh when Americans (houstonderek) talk about how dangerous it is for other countries to have nukes like they might just off and drop one - I mean who has used nukes other than you guys?
Iran has genuine justification to have nukes as a balance. Israel has them.
As has been implied, they aren't even 5% as whacko as North Korea. That's where I put my worries.
Also, let's remember that we are talking about a democracy here. Their democracy is in the hands of the mullahs, America's is in the hands of big money. Fun fun fun.
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Yeah, a "democracy". That outlaws parties that may challenge the mullah's hegemony.
As far as Iran's justification for nukes. Yeah, whatever. Israel hasn't threatened to wipe the Muslim world off the map. But, I forgot. Israel is the most evil nation on the planet.
I gotta keep remembering, it isn't that they hate Jews, it's that they hate Israel...
Without feeling attacked, I think Kruelaid makes some good points. I still think US = more right, but agree it is not as cut and dry as Iran evil, US good.
Judging by effect, there's no difference between outlawing parties and marginalizing them structurally and economically.
If you had a parliamentary system where party diversity stood half a chance, then you can talk.
I gotta keep remembering, it isn't that they hate Jews, it's that they hate Israel...
It's the Zionism that bothers me, and my Jewish friends actually.
Every country has elements that threaten their neighbors and Israel is no exception. I recognize that BOTH sides are threatened and your comments imply I am an anti-Semite.
Please, that ploy is over used.
But, I forgot. Israel is the most evil nation on the planet.
It's exactly comments like this, where someone tries to inflate the other side's perspective until it explodes, that breeds irrational exchanges on these boards.
I'm cool here, houstonderek.
I'm politically a realist. I'm not anti-American. I'm not anti-Semitic. I'm not anti-Islam. If you approach this with your toes on the American propaganda line you're just going to wind up insulting people.
The mullahs will either:
a) Do nothing if Ahdidadog is winning easily, or...
b) disqualify Moussavi on some technicality if Adinnerjacket is losing...
Please also consider that your denigration of that dude's crazy name can be construed as racist and EXTREMELY insulting to some people.
Of course I confess that I can't spell it or even remember it myself.
BTW, I am in for Moussavi. I'll go for anything that increases the chance of reasonable dialogue between hostile countries.
Maybe him and the B-man can sit down at the hookah and have a real talk.
Heck I'm pulling for Moussavi myself. Even if the mullahs are in control, sometimes a reformer figurehead at the helm loosens up the country's politics, and gets the ball rolling in ways that cannot be forseen at the moment. Look at what Gorbachev's tenure at the head of the Soviet Union did, much of it to his dismay...
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But, I forgot. Israel is the most evil nation on the planet.It's exactly comments like this, where someone tries to inflate the other side's perspective until it explodes, that breeds irrational exchanges on these boards.
I'm cool here, houstonderek.
I'm politically a realist. I'm not anti-American. I'm not anti-Semitic. I'm not anti-Islam. If you approach this with your toes on the American propaganda line you're just going to wind up insulting people.
Dude, first of all, I hate our two party system. We have a choice between two groups of criminals and liars.
Second of all, I only have to look to the U.N. and the American mainstream press for all of the anti-Israel rhetoric I can stomach. And, no, int he international press, there is a definite double standard applied to Israel. I don't see 1% of the venom reserved for Israel being spewed at nations where human rights aren't even a consideration. So, my "most evil nation on the planet" comment is directed at a much larger target than just this thread or these boards.
Last time I checked, no one was trying to (or proclaimed they would) "wipe Iran off the face of the Earth". However, it is taught to Palestinian school children in their morning cartoons that Jews are sub-human, and that Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet. Cartoons funded by the UN and Iran.
But, I forgot. Israel is the most evil nation on the planet.It's exactly comments like this, where someone tries to inflate the other side's perspective until it explodes, that breeds irrational exchanges on these boards.
I'm cool here, houstonderek.
I'm politically a realist. I'm not anti-American. I'm not anti-Semitic. I'm not anti-Islam. If you approach this with your toes on the American propaganda line you're just going to wind up insulting people.
Dude, first of all, I hate our two party system. We have a choice between two groups of criminals and liars.
Second of all, I only have to look to the U.N. and the American mainstream press for all of the anti-Israel rhetoric I can stomach. And, no, int he international press, there is a definite double standard applied to Israel. I don't see 1% of the venom reserved for Israel being spewed at nations where human rights aren't even a consideration. So, my "most evil nation on the planet" comment is directed at a much larger target than just this thread or these boards.
Last time I checked, no one was trying to (or proclaimed they would) "wipe Iran off the face of the Earth". However, it is taught to Palestinian school children in their morning cartoons that Jews are sub-human, and that Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet. Cartoons funded by the UN and Iran.
So what's your point?
Do you think this is any different than the US funding Israel's militarism? Can you stomach Israeli soldiers shooting kids who wander into the fire zones? You think Israeli's aren't learning that their "other" is worthy of the dignities and rights that human's deserve? (ED: was I supposed to write "are" here.... I don't get my point. WTF?)
I'm not the one that took a side here.
Chill.
And if you think Israel is being victimized by the press and the UN, then maybe it's where you get your info, cuz I'm not getting that.
ED: I will concede that they disproportionately criticize the Israelis, but hey the world is f%%&ed up. Americans get it from some sources too. It seems to me that the terrorist f%!#s who get their rocks off on blowing up innocents get their share of criticism, too, but it's hard for the UN to take action against subversive group with no political body. At least they can do so with Israel when they drop anti-personnel artillery on civilians.
...Cartoons funded by the UN and Iran.
I'm curious about this. Could you give a little more explanation please?
Yeah, I'm taking a side here. Has to do with knowing a lot about the history (since '48). Especially before '67. A lot of people have no clue about a lot of realities there.
So how does denigrating the names of their leaders and twisting other people's arguments help you educate those of us who are clueless?
And what have I said here that suggests I am clueless?
Thanks for the links. Regrettably, my boss surrounded me with a Wall of Fire and I can't access them right now. Where does he get off, wanting me to actually work instead of watching YouTube? Don't worry, I'll get even someday and set the building on fire.
I had the chance to see those nuggets of filth in the days before my Communist overlords decided I wasn't allowed to see Youtube.
Yeah, I'm taking a side here. Has to do with knowing a lot about the history (since '48). Especially before '67. A lot of people have no clue about a lot of realities there.
Problem is should children now pay for the crimes of the past. It reinforces the current situation.
Antagonist 1: I will kill you because your uncle blew up my father.
Antagonist 2: Well your grandfather buldozed my fathers orchard and took his land.
Well your grandfather blah blah blah
And so on so on on and on and on
The tragedy is when courageous men such as Yitzhak Rabin try and find a way out of the cycle they get killed by their own people.
The problem is that the extremists win many debates by killing their moderate opposition. Rabin, Bhutto, etc. The latest was this anti-Taliban cleric in Pakistan >link<
And this whole 'paying the debts of our forefathers' crap. Every person has crimes committed against their ancestors if they dig far enough. Should I hate the British for Strongbow and Cromwell and the Highland Clearances? Should I hate America because some of my ancestors were Loyalists?
Wipe the slate clean, and start fresh, otherwise the cycle goes on and on..
Same with Iran. Did they do us some dirt in '79? You betcha. Did we do them some dirt in '53? You betcha. Let's all act like we all just met and try to start fresh.
Moussavi should have his shot at moderating Iranian politics. Who knows? He might do some good.
And this whole 'paying the debts of our forefathers' crap. Every person has crimes committed against their ancestors if they dig far enough. Should I hate the British for Strongbow and Cromwell and the Highland Clearances? Should I hate America because some of my ancestors were Loyalists?
Wipe the slate clean, and start fresh, otherwise the cycle goes on and on..
Same with Iran. Did they do us some dirt in '79? You betcha. Did we do them some dirt in '53? You betcha. Let's all act like we all just met and try to start fresh.
Moussavi should have his shot at moderating Iranian politics. Who knows? He might do some good.
I hope so - This Muslim = Extremist & Terrorist Vs Westerner = Corrupt & debauched, thing is getting old.
Perpetuating the stereotypes is not helping anybody.
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[sarcasm] I have a WONDERFUL idea that will make everyone happy on both sides!! The Iranians, and by a larger extent extreme Islamists, would like to see Isreal wiped off the map correct? Also, The US and some of our allies would like to put a stop to extreme Islamic terrorism, correct? So why don't we just wipe Iran AND Israel out? Drop bombs on both of them and just listen to the world be quiet!! [/sarcasm]
Look, I am all for honest elections ANYWHERE and I do believe that Akmedenijhad (sp?) is probably on his way out. But honestly, guys, I think that this whole us vs them mentality is old. If Akmedenijhad (again...sp?) gets re-elected, then we know what we're in for. If Moussavi gets elected, then lets see what he does before we call him a terrorist.
Nuts.
S+@#.
I kept telling the reporters on the news today that nobody becomes president in Iran apart from the Ayatollah's nod. But those asses never listen to me.
It's the hanging chads!
I started to make a REALLY politically divisive comment, but it's time for us to heal.
I have not stirred up enough trouble lately. I almost had this ember going.
Just install another puppet government, under Kermit Roosevelt III so he can finish what his daddy started.
Don't let countries have democracy. They may vote in people who don't want to support American interests.
You can sell more bananas that way.
I gotta keep remembering, it isn't that they hate Jews, it's that they hate Israel...Thats right...they are supposed to have a Jewish Population.
I guess its just being told what to do by nuclear armed Rogue States that pisses them off.
Are you referring to Israel or the United states?
Bad news. Moderates lost to hardliners. Iran stays on the Axis of Evil list.
We will see what happens then. This might actually be the beginning of the end for the clerical council.
Remember, that "youth vote" that Moussavi mobilized will become the center of the electorate in a few years. The next generation of Iranians may have some very different ideas about how to run things.
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Bad news. Moderates lost to hardliners. Iran stays on the Axis of Evil list.We will see what happens then. This might actually be the beginning of the end for the clerical council.
Remember, that "youth vote" that Moussavi mobilized will become the center of the electorate in a few years. The next generation of Iranians may have some very different ideas about how to run things.
Belive it when there is an unrigged election.
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Clashes erupt in Iran over disputed election and so it begins.
Mousavi rejected the result as rigged and urged his supporters to resist a government of "lies and dictatorship."
"I'm warning that I won't surrender to this manipulation," said a statement on Mousavi's Web site. "The outcome of what we've seen from the performance of officials ... is nothing but shaking the pillars of the Islamic Republic of Iran's sacred system and governance of lies and dictatorship," it added.
Mousavi warned "people won't respect those who take power through fraud." The headline on one of his Web sites read: "I won't give in to this dangerous manipulation."
[sarcasm]Sweet!!! Civil War!!![/sarcasm]