Obviously I can't do the complete conversions until I get the PF RPG book (grrr, waiting, hurt, brain...). But, I can start figuring out what I need to do to convert it.
It's a monster campaign, so I think it's fairly obvious that the place to start is with the races. Most should be straight forward (Goliath, Poisondusk Lizardfolk, Duerger, Kobold, and Catfolk). Probably the biggest thing I can see is that some of the races had +1 ECL's. However, compared to the base races in PF, I think some of those +1's should just go away, they aren't more powerful than the core races anymore, not enough to justify a +1 ECL. The down side of this is that we played using the Unearthed Arcana's ECL Buyoff rules. So that means the players have with those races have given up XP to buy off those ECL's. I think I can just give them back their XP they spent and be ok though, so that's fairly easy. Someone might get a level out of it, but that's ok too.
Next is the classes, and this becomes a bit more problematic. Because the core classes were somewhat less than exciting, most of the players used alternate classes. So I have :
1 Catfolk Druid (Easy peasy, just use PF Druid)
1 Poisondusk Warlock/Scout (Blech)
1 Goliath Fighter/Cleric (Easy peasy, just use PF Fighter/Cleric)
1 Kobold Marshal (Don't ask, long story, haveta convert Marshal)
1 Duerger Duskblade (Gotta convert the Duskblade).
Ok,
So, what I'm looking for is help noticing anything I've overlooked before I get the book, so I know what all I need to do once the book is in my hot little hands.
1) Fix Hit Dice based of BAB.
2) Fix Class Skills of each non-core class (for use with new skills)
3) Examine Class Progression to see if they get enough things. This is the hard one, as it's not cut and dry. Even the PF core classes (based of Beta) don't get 'something every level' (clerics, rangers, wizards for example).
The Scout seems ok the way it is with a few minor tweaks, the Hit Die are even ok based on BAB. Just fix the class skills.
The Warlock also doesn't need any boosts on his abilities, I don't think, he's pretty powerful as he is. The only thing I'm wondering about is possibly giving him a choice of 'bloodlines' similar to a sorcerer. That's a lot of work (can't just copy and paste the sorcerer abilities) instead, it'd be more like modifiers to the invocations (A draconic based warlock would be more likely to have DR 5/adamantine than 5/cold iron). Again though, that's a huge amount of work. Which is why I'm posting to see if someone has ideas, or if there are some home brew things to start with somewhere.
A Duskblade needs a hit-die boost to fit his BAB, but he get's pretty good spread of abilities over multiple levels. However, he's similar to a sorcerer (Specific list of known spells, doesn't memorize them from a book, basically a spontaneous caster. Someone took a sorcerer and trained them specially.), so, I think the Duskblade's should get a sorcerer bloodline.
The Marshal is the odd man out. His Hit Die are fine, but he get's almost nothing in the way of class benefits at higher levels. I'm considering giving him Armor and Weapon Training from the fighter (But not the weapon/armor mastery), and two or three extra feats. Might also let him count as a fighter at 1/2 his marshal level for qualifying for fighter feats (IE: If the feat requires Fighter-4, he can qualify at Marshal 8). This gives him some of the new fighter abilities, but doesn't keep him on par with the fighter for those abilities (which is balanced by his Marshal abilities).
Anyway, any and all thoughts will be appreciated, or made fun of, as the whim hits me. :)
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See, the Duskblade is one of those classes that inspired the Pathfinder core class upgrades in the first place, so I don't know how much improvement should really be done, other than the skill adjustments.
As far as the Marshall goes, I'm not really sure just which way the conversion should take it - more group powers like a Bard, or more combat-focused things like the Fighter.
See, the Duskblade is one of those classes that inspired the Pathfinder core class upgrades in the first place, so I don't know how much improvement should really be done, other than the skill adjustments.
As far as the Marshall goes, I'm not really sure just which way the conversion should take it - more group powers like a Bard, or more combat-focused things like the Fighter.
Hmmm,
Actually, looking at it, it looks like you could ALMOST build the duskblade as a sorcerer with the right feats. That would negate the need for the Duskblade class at all, and give him more freedom of spell choice, and more spells per day (plus the sorcerer bloodline). It would take multiclassing with fighter, but only a level or two of dip. One level dip gives him his martial weapon/armor proficiencies. Then, Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery. As long as he keeps his failure chance low, that's ok. But no way to channel his spells into his weapons that I can find, and it doesn't duplicate his current character (who has taken the Battlecaster feat to wear heavy armor and is wearing Adamantine Full Plate).Hmmm,
I'm thinking maybe an alternate build sorcerer would work best for the duskblade. I'll have to work it out, but, giving up spells above a certain level (Duskblades only go up to 5th anyway). Add in the abilities of the Duskblade to cast in armor at certain levels, and the channeling ability. Could work, would make it easier than converting the entire class, and also allow sorcerer's to take the channel spell alternate ability without the armor (or vice versa, which would then create the warmage without need for another class).
I'll have to think about this.
Ok,
I got the Marshal converted over to my liking (you can see my version on a Marshal Thread. Now I'm just going through doing class conversions as I think of them for future reference. Any feedback on the following :
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Favored Soul
- Removed Jump and Concentration from class skills
- Added Fly to class skills
- Altered spells known to match sorcerer (resulted in loss of spells known)
- Moved Deity's Weapon Specialization from 12th level to 11th.
- Added Greater Deity's Weapon Focus at 13th.
- Added Greater Deity's Weapon Specialization at 18th.
- Added Deity's Domain Spell Focus to class abilities.
Deity's Domain Spell Focus: The Favored Soul picks one of their Deity's domains, they automatically adds all the spells from that domain to their list of spells known. Additionally, they gain the Spell Focus feat (+1 DC for saves) with those spells, if applicable. They may choose a domain at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th levels. If their deity does not have four domains, they may instead learn any one spell of any level they can cast, and treat that spell as if it benefited from the Spell Focus feat.
Healer
This one was harder to change. Kind of a pain. Not sure I'm happy with it, but here's what I got so far.
- Adjusted hit dice down to d6 to match BAB
- Added Improved Toughness at Level 1
- Added Extend Spell at 11th
- Added Maximized Spell at 12th
- Added Spontaneous Healer at 14th
- Modified the Reflex Save to also be Good progression (similar to Favored Soul, where all 3 are good)
- Expanded the Spell List as per below
Spell List, Healer
- Orisons - create water, deathwatch, detect magic, detect poison, light, purify food and drink, read magic
- 1st - bless water, conviction, cure light wounds, delay disease, goodberry, healthful rest, ironguts, protection from evil, remove fear, remove paralysis, sanctuary, speak with animals, vigor (lesser)
- 2nd - calm emotions, close wounds, cure moderate wounds, delay poison, divine protection, gentle repose, healing lorecall, protection from negative/positive energy, remove blindness/deafness, remove disease, restoration (lesser), stabilize
- 3rd - cloak of bravery, close wounds, mass conviction, create food and water, cure serious wounds, neutralize poison, remove curse, restoration, safety, status, vigor, mass lesser vigor
- 4th - cure critical wounds, death ward, delay death, freedom of movement, mass cure light wounds, panacea, positive energy aura, sheltered vitality
- 5th - atonement, break enchantment, mass cure moderate wounds, heal animal companion, life's grace, raise dead, revivify, mass sanctuary, stone to flesh, true seeing, greater vigor
- 6th - greater restoration, heal, heroes' feast, mass cure serious wounds, regenerate, revive outsider, vigorous circle7th - fortunate fate, mass cure critical wounds, renewal pact, repulsion, mass restoration, resurrection
- 8th - death pact, mass death ward, discern location, holy aura, mass heal
- 9th - foresight, gate, true resurrection, undeath's eternal foe
As I said, not sure I'm happy with the healer, although the spell list modifications are, I think, over due. I hated cutting the hit die, but in PF it's d6/d8/d10 (with d12 only there for certain classes, like Barbarian). Flaming can now commence. :)
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The Healer needs some more bumps, I think. Two things I would suggest would be to add some features such as Divine Grace and the Combat Medic abilities (Heroes of Battle), drop the Druid Armor thing, and maybe grant an AC Bonus.
I'm not sure about the Favored Soul. If you reconceptualize the Class, Bloodlines could work really good, if a little modified. Am I reading this right, +1 Domain/4 Levels? That seems really good. I would suggest maybe 1 Domain at Level 2, and (maybe) a 2nd at Level 11. What might work better though is to allow them to take Fighter Only Feats, and definety get rid of the Wis & Cha for spells. It is just Wis (PHB actually says Divine Magic is always based off of Wis).
The Healer needs some more bumps, I think. Two things I would suggest would be to add some features such as Divine Grace and the Combat Medic abilities (Heroes of Battle), drop the Druid Armor thing, and maybe grant an AC Bonus.
I'm not sure about the Favored Soul. If you reconceptualize the Class, Bloodlines could work really good, if a little modified. Am I reading this right, +1 Domain/4 Levels? That seems really good. I would suggest maybe 1 Domain at Level 2, and (maybe) a 2nd at Level 11. What might work better though is to allow them to take Fighter Only Feats, and definety get rid of the Wis & Cha for spells. It is just Wis (PHB actually says Divine Magic is always based off of Wis).
Favored Soul
Yes, 1 domain/4 levels, but remember, they don't get any extra spells, just spells known. By changing them to the sorcerer's spells known, they lost quite a few spells known. This sort of adds them back. So, they get to learn some domain spells (add to spells known list), but they don't get any additional spells per day. So I think four is ok. And they don't get domain abilities, just spells added to the spells known list.I wanted to avoid the bloodline though, didn't want to mix the divine and arcane. And don't want to give them fighter only feats, I'm trying to stay away from that if I can if they aren't a martial class (knight, marshal, etc).
Healer
Good idea, I'll have to look at divine grace and combat medic. As to the druid type armor, I'm ok with that restriction. Honestly they get tons of spells (same as sorcerer, which is most in the game), so they have tons more healing spells than a cleric. That's actually good for me, differentiates them more.
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The Combat Medic is a very good little class. The Healer is designed for staying away from combat and fixing problems for others, while the Combat Medic is about being right there in the middle of it, keeping yourself alive so that you can make sure everyone else comes out. "Save the cheerleader, . . ."
I didn't think of that with the Favored Soul. Still not sure, that seems a little bit better and worse at the same time. I like that your going for a little personalization here, the problem is that really cuts down on their ability to do things. I'd still think about keeping their original spells known, maybe even increasing it a little, and granting them 1 or 2 Domains.
(From my experience with the FS, I really wanted to like the class. Divine champions is my concept, but the class just sort of failed for me. It was even harder to personalize and still be effective than a Cleric. The Levels that you gain abilities are wakey, sometimes leaving you with gaining almost nothing, like +1 0 level spell/day. Because they don't qualify for many feats that are designed for Divine casters, they don't really have a lot of good feat selections, so the class always turns out feeling very bland, to me anyway. For the Fighter only feats, I was thinking more of the Weapon specific ones, such as Greater Weapon Specialization, or some of the PHB2 chains, not any Fighter feat. Finally, when it came to Epic, the FS basically got a NPC class progression, partially due to not being able to qualify for many things and partially because their features didn't fit the Epic do it yourself progressions.)
Contributor
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Hey, mdt.
I've done some conversions of my own in preparation to convert two 3.5e campaigns over to PFRPG. I've done conversions of the Scout and the Duskblade. They are still in accordance with the Beta rules currently.
You can find them here: Paris Crenshaw's Non-Core Class Conversions
When I did my conversions, I was specifically trying to do literal translations of the classes, rather than adjusting power levels or creating new abilities.
Also, while much of the text is the same as what is in the original splat books, I tried to add/modify the flavor text to help the classes mesh with Golarion. The Scout didn't really require that much, but I added some stuff to the duskblade to tie it to Golarion elves, rather than the standard D&D ones.
See, the Duskblade is one of those classes that inspired the Pathfinder core class upgrades in the first place, so I don't know how much improvement should really be done, other than the skill adjustments.
Hmmm,
Actually, looking at it, it looks like you could ALMOST build the duskblade as a sorcerer with the right feats. That would negate the need for the Duskblade class at all, and give him more freedom of spell choice, and more spells per day (plus the sorcerer bloodline). It would take multiclassing with fighter, but only a level or two of dip. One level dip gives him his martial weapon/armor proficiencies. Then, Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery. As long as he keeps his failure chance low, that's ok. But no way to channel his spells into his weapons that I can find, and it doesn't duplicate his current character (who has taken the Battlecaster feat to wear heavy armor and is wearing Adamantine Full Plate).
Since the Duskblade is one of those class I do not like at all, take my suggestions with some distance.
The Duskblade is a class which shares the same niche of the Psychic Warrior IMHO: a martial class who, given time for buffering, can really dish out great damage, but without buffering is a lot less powerful than a straight Fighter or Barbarian.
Now, since the Psychic Warrior has Medium BaB and d8 HDs, while the Duskblade has Full BaB and d8 HDs, my personal opinion is to match completely the two classes on their BaB/HD ratio (after all, a Duskblade is an 'Arcane' Psychic Warrior, isn't he?). Rather than changing the HD to match the BaB (Full BaB = d10), I would personally change the BaB to match the HD (d8 = Medium BaB).
Just my 2c.
See, the Duskblade is one of those classes that inspired the Pathfinder core class upgrades in the first place, so I don't know how much improvement should really be done, other than the skill adjustments.
Hmmm,
Actually, looking at it, it looks like you could ALMOST build the duskblade as a sorcerer with the right feats. That would negate the need for the Duskblade class at all, and give him more freedom of spell choice, and more spells per day (plus the sorcerer bloodline). It would take multiclassing with fighter, but only a level or two of dip. One level dip gives him his martial weapon/armor proficiencies. Then, Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery. As long as he keeps his failure chance low, that's ok. But no way to channel his spells into his weapons that I can find, and it doesn't duplicate his current character (who has taken the Battlecaster feat to wear heavy armor and is wearing Adamantine Full Plate).
Since the Duskblade is one of those class I do not like at all, take my suggestions with some distance.
The Duskblade is a class which shares the same niche of the Psychic Warrior IMHO: a martial class who, given time for buffering, can really dish out great damage, but without buffering is a lot less powerful than a straight Fighter or Barbarian.
Now, since the Psychic Warrior has Medium BaB and d8 HDs, while the Duskblade has Full BaB and d8 HDs, my personal opinion is to match completely the two classes on their BaB/HD ratio (after all, a Duskblade is an 'Arcane' Psychic Warrior, isn't he?). Rather than changing the HD to match the BaB (Full BaB = d10), I would personally change the BaB to match the HD (d8 = Medium BaB).
Just my 2c.
I'm still trying to figure out how to do that, but it's not as big a priority as it was. My duskblade character died yesterday while the players were fighting an adult black dragon (bad positioning in a swamp, and everyone was out of position to help, and people panicked (in real life, not their characters) and they ended up not realizing he was in trouble. The dragon got away, but they did 198 hps (he had 230) and sacked his treasure trove. So he's too busy licking his wounds, finding a new lair, guarding the remains of his treasure hoard, etc for now. But he plans on causing them trouble if he can later. He's royally ticked off at them now.
I do agree with you though, the duskblade is a bit overpowered. I think adjusting the BAB in this case, instead of the hit die, might be appropriate. Other than that, I don't plan on making many changes. The more I think about it, the more powerful they are, and the less they fit into a nice niche with the sorcerer.
Hey, mdt.
I've done some conversions of my own in preparation to convert two 3.5e campaigns over to PFRPG. I've done conversions of the Scout and the Duskblade. They are still in accordance with the Beta rules currently.
You can find them here: Paris Crenshaw's Non-Core Class Conversions
When I did my conversions, I was specifically trying to do literal translations of the classes, rather than adjusting power levels or creating new abilities.
Also, while much of the text is the same as what is in the original splat books, I tried to add/modify the flavor text to help the classes mesh with Golarion. The Scout didn't really require that much, but I added some stuff to the duskblade to tie it to Golarion elves, rather than the standard D&D ones.
Thanks, I'll look it over.
I'm not really interested in boosting all the classes, just the ones WoTC hamstrung (like the healer and Marshal). Although for the Marshal, I think the final version I have is pretty balanced. The scout I agree is the easy one, it doesn't require any boosting, just tweaking, it's a great class the way it is. I vastly prefer it to the Ranger for a woodlands scout. I usually allow an Alternate build where the scout get's Survival and Woodland Stride instead of Trapfinding and Disable Device.
The Combat Medic is a very good little class. The Healer is designed for staying away from combat and fixing problems for others, while the Combat Medic is about being right there in the middle of it, keeping yourself alive so that you can make sure everyone else comes out. "Save the cheerleader, . . ."
Yep,
I am going to look over the combat medic some more. I may disperse it's abilities throughout the Healer class and merge the two. A cleric could still take the prestige class, but a Healer just gains the benefits of Combat Medic without need for a PrC. I honestly love the idea of a healer class, someone who heals but doesn't follow a god/goddess to do so.
I didn't think of that with the Favored Soul. Still not sure, that seems a little bit better and worse at the same time. I like that your going for a little personalization here, the problem is that really cuts down on their ability to do things. I'd still think about keeping their original spells known, maybe even increasing it a little, and granting them 1 or 2 Domains.
Well,
I honestly get a little nervous about the spell's known being more than a sorcerer's (since they are supposed to be the epitome of a spontaneous class). I also was trying to avoid actually giving them domains (as in, cast these spells, get this domain power) because they are then more like 'cleric light'. I'll think it over.
(From my experience with the FS, I really wanted to like the class. Divine champions is my concept, but the class just sort of failed for me. It was even harder to personalize and still be effective than a Cleric. The Levels that you gain abilities are wakey, sometimes leaving you with gaining almost nothing, like +1 0 level spell/day. Because they don't qualify for many feats that are designed for Divine casters, they don't really have a lot of good feat selections, so the class always turns out feeling very bland, to me anyway. For the Fighter only feats, I was thinking more of the Weapon specific ones, such as Greater Weapon Specialization, or some of the PHB2 chains, not any Fighter feat. Finally, when it came to Epic, the FS basically got a NPC class progression, partially due to not being able to qualify for many things and partially because their features didn't fit the Epic do it yourself progressions.)
Yep, I played a FS, but they don't give you enough for losing spontaneous healing and turning. I did give them greater weapon specialization (see original post) because it fit in with their natural progression with their deity's favored weapon (also geater weapon focus). Never tried it with Epic rules, to be honest.
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I just mean (for Epic), that if you use the rules as they are, the FS gets nothing. They can't qualify for Epic spells until close to 40th, because it specifically says Divine Magic uses Religion or Nature, not Arcana. They don't have any turning or Domains, so all those feats do not apply. The only class features they get are either one time things, like wings, or not on any sort of level based scheme, like Energy Resistance, so they shouldn't increase. So the only thing they actually get is a higher caster level, which doesn't help at all really, no more spells known or per day, and a lot of feats, that they don't really qualify for anything cool. Almost no different than a 21st level Commoner.
I just mean (for Epic), that if you use the rules as they are, the FS gets nothing. They can't qualify for Epic spells until close to 40th, because it specifically says Divine Magic uses Religion or Nature, not Arcana. They don't have any turning or Domains, so all those feats do not apply. The only class features they get are either one time things, like wings, or not on any sort of level based scheme, like Energy Resistance, so they shouldn't increase. So the only thing they actually get is a higher caster level, which doesn't help at all really, no more spells known or per day, and a lot of feats, that they don't really qualify for anything cool. Almost no different than a 21st level Commoner.
Ah,
LOL. I see what you meant. Thing is, we have always played that Knowledge (religion) was a class skill for a FS. We've done it since it came out, and I honestly completely forgot it wasn't. So yes, I see your point on that.I think I might make another small change, at your suggestion. Might stipulate that Energy Resistance is level based.
Starting at 5th level, and every 5 levels after that (10th, 15th, 20th, etc) the favored soul gains access to resistance to another type of energy. If the favored soul already has inherent resistance to all energy types (fire, cold, sonic, acid, electricity), they may instead add either an exotic energy type (light, negative energy, positive energy, shadow, or any other energy the GM allows) or they may increase their resistance rating to an existing energy by +10 (no existing energy resistance can be boosted more than once in this method).
That should take care of them quite a ways up into the epic realms, level 25 to get all 5 base energy types. Level 50 to double all five base energy types, or they can get the exotics at lower levels and so forth. Either way, they can't get the exotics until they are in the epic levels.
I just mean (for Epic), that if you use the rules as they are, the FS gets nothing. They can't qualify for Epic spells until close to 40th, because it specifically says Divine Magic uses Religion or Nature, not Arcana. They don't have any turning or Domains, so all those feats do not apply. The only class features they get are either one time things, like wings, or not on any sort of level based scheme, like Energy Resistance, so they shouldn't increase. So the only thing they actually get is a higher caster level, which doesn't help at all really, no more spells known or per day, and a lot of feats, that they don't really qualify for anything cool. Almost no different than a 21st level Commoner.
Well, this is not entirely correct.
Epic Spellcasting had (as prerequisites) 24 ranks in Knowledge (Religion or Arcana), 24 ranks in Spellcraft, and ability to cast 9th level divine/arcane spells.
Now, since the formula for calculating skill ranks in Pathfinder has slightly changed (previously, a character would have 24 ranks at 21st level - now, in Pathfinder, the +3 gained as Class Skill is a bonus), the ranks would drop to 21 in Spellcraft and 21 in Knowledge (Religion or Arcana).
Since there are no more 'half-ranks', even a Fighter (if he wants to invest his few skill points - this is an hyperbole, of course) can have 21 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) at 21st level - he only loses the +3 from having a Class Skill.
Regarding the 'no class features that improve in a level-based scheme', this is true also for the Cleric (only exception was Turn Undead). However, a Cleric or Favored Soul can always take Improved Spell Capacity in order to have spell slots of a higher level (for Metamagic purpose - but also to cast lower level spells into these higher-level slots).
I would suggest these feats as Bonus Feats for an Epic Favored Soul (gained every 3 levels - just like a Cleric does - at 23th, 26th, and so on):
Improved Metamagic, Improved Spell Capacity, Spell Knowledge (from DMG, page 210 - they are also on the ELH);
Epic Devotion (from Complete Divine, page 89);
Armor Skin, Automatic Quicken Spell, Automatic Silent Spell, Automatic Still Spell, Energy Resistance, Enhance Spell, Epic Reputation,Epic Spell Focus, Epic Spell Penetration, Epic Spellcasting, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization, Ignore Material Components, Improved Combat Casting, Improved Heighten Spell, Intensify Spell, Multispell, Permanent Emanation, Spell Stowaway, Spell Opportunity (from ELH).
The list is very similar to that of the Sorcerer (obviously) with some tweaks (due to the martial aspect of the Fav.Soul).
Just my 2c.
Well, this is not entirely correct.Epic Spellcasting had (as prerequisites) 24 ranks in Knowledge (Religion or Arcana), 24 ranks in Spellcraft, and ability to cast 9th level divine/arcane spells.
Now, since the formula for calculating skill ranks in Pathfinder has slightly changed (previously, a character would have 24 ranks at 21st level - now, in Pathfinder, the +3 gained as Class Skill is a bonus), the ranks would drop to 21 in Spellcraft and 21 in Knowledge (Religion or Arcana).
Since there are no more 'half-ranks', even a Fighter (if he wants to invest his few skill points - this is an hyperbole, of course) can have 21 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) at 21st level - he only loses the +3 from having a Class Skill.Regarding the 'no class features that improve in a level-based scheme', this is true also for the Cleric (only exception was Turn Undead). However, a Cleric or Favored Soul can always take Improved Spell Capacity in order to have spell slots of a higher level (for Metamagic purpose - but also to cast lower level spells into these higher-level slots).
I would suggest these feats as Bonus Feats for an Epic Favored Soul (gained every 3 levels - just like a Cleric does - at 23th, 26th, and so on):
Improved Metamagic, Improved Spell Capacity, Spell Knowledge (from...
Actually,
The fighter, if I read the rules correctly, would need 42 ranks. There's a blurb in Beta that says 'Due to skill changes, pre-requisites for feats/PrC/etc change. To determine what the pre-req is, subtract 3 from the listed value, and that is the ranks needed if it is a class skill. Then double this number to find the non-class pre-req.' So, 24-3 = 21, 21 x 2 = 42.I honestly have never run an epic level game. The highest level I've every run is up to about 18th. Everyone that plays in my games always complains that the epic level stuff is utterly broken and boring.
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On the contrary, the vast majority of Epicness has been essentially reprinted in nonepic form through the Complete Books, or other suppliments, (and generally made better). On the other hand, because some rules changed from 3.0 to 3.5, others became utterly useless, or in a few cases worse than without the feat. Most of the Epic Spells have nonEpic spell equivalents, with less cost and almost (if not better) bang for your buck. I discovered this when I was trying to go through and update the ELH myself.
On the contrary, the vast majority of Epicness has been essentially reprinted in nonepic form through the Complete Books, or other suppliments, (and generally made better). On the other hand, because some rules changed from 3.0 to 3.5, others became utterly useless, or in a few cases worse than without the feat. Most of the Epic Spells have nonEpic spell equivalents, with less cost and almost (if not better) bang for your buck. I discovered this when I was trying to go through and update the ELH myself.
Well,
I can't argue with you. As I said, I've never run an epic campaign myself. Again though, that's because my players have always made faces and declined the option. So all of my 'Epic Sucks' comments come from the point of view of a GM who's players consistently dislike playing epic.|
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Ya. Epic is nice to play either in short little bouts, or to build up to and than take characters out of retirment now and again. It is hard to do for long, just because you can only go so far before it just becomes pointless sometimes.
How many deities have I killed . . .? My +24 Vorpal, triple Keen, All Elemental, Treats me as a Paladin Holy Avenger, Sword of Wounding just isn't cutting it anymore, I want a +25 quadruple Keen sword.
Actually,
The fighter, if I read the rules correctly, would need 42 ranks. There's a blurb in Beta that says 'Due to skill changes, pre-requisites for feats/PrC/etc change. To determine what the pre-req is, subtract 3 from the listed value, and that is the ranks needed if it is a class skill. Then double this number to find the non-class pre-req.' So, 24-3 = 21, 21 x 2 = 42.
I think you are referring to this rule:
"With the changes to the skill system, the requirements to enter various prestige classes must change as well. Whenever a prestige class calls for a number of skill ranks, you can qualify for the prestige class if you meet that number of ranks –3 if you also have the skill as a class skill. If you do not have the skill as a class skill, you must possess double that number of ranks. For example, a 3.5 prestige class might require eight ranks in Move Silently. In the Pathfinder RPG, it instead requires five ranks of the Stealth skill if Stealth is one of your class skills and ten ranks if it is not."(page 52)
Please note that the entry refers to Prestige Classes only, and to the conversion a GM must apply in order to make a transparency between the prerequisites in 3.x and those in PFPRG.
As a side note, that rule has been discussed here during the playtest, because it was not very clear if it was meant for 3.x classes converted in PFRPG or not... however, no mentions to Feats requirements are mentioned.
In PFRPG, it doesn't matter anymore if a Skill is a Class-skill or not - at 7th level (for example) any character can invest a maximum of 7 ranks into ANY skill - class or not; the only difference is, a Class skill gives a +3 bonus to the skill - and nothing else.
See page 52:
"At first level, your character gains a number of skill points dependent upon your class plus your Intelligence modifier. At every level after that, you gain additional skill points. These skill points can be spent to purchase ranks of any skill, but you can only acquire a number of ranks in a specific skill equal to your total Hit Dice. In addition, each class has a number of favored skills, called class skills. Your character is most proficient in these skills, as they represent part of his professional training and constant practice. You gain a +3 bonus on all class skills that you put ranks into. If you have more than one class and both grant you a class skill bonus, these bonuses do not stack.
The number of skill ranks you gain when taking a level in one of the base classes is shown on table 5–1. Humans gain one additional skill point per class level. Character’s who take levels in their favored class can also chose to gain 1 additional skill point. At each level after 1st, you gain a number of skill ranks dependant upon your class. If you select a level in a new class, all of its class skills are automatically added to your list of class skills, and you gain a +3 bonus on these skills if you have ranks in them."
Actually,
The fighter, if I read the rules correctly, would need 42 ranks. There's a blurb in Beta that says 'Due to skill changes, pre-requisites for feats/PrC/etc change. To determine what the pre-req is, subtract 3 from the listed value, and that is the ranks needed if it is a class skill. Then double this number to find the non-class pre-req.' So, 24-3 = 21, 21 x 2 = 42.I think you are referring to this rule:
"With the changes to the skill system, the requirements to enter various prestige classes must change as well. Whenever a prestige class calls for a number of skill ranks, you can qualify for the prestige class if you meet that number of ranks –3 if you also have the skill as a class skill. If you do not have the skill as a class skill, you must possess double that number of ranks. For example, a 3.5 prestige class might require eight ranks in Move Silently. In the Pathfinder RPG, it instead requires five ranks of the Stealth skill if Stealth is one of your class skills and ten ranks if it is not."
(page 52)Please note that the entry refers to Prestige Classes only, and to the conversion a GM must apply in order to make a transparency between the prerequisites in 3.x and those in PFPRG.
As a side note, that rule has been discussed here during the playtest, because it was not very clear if it was meant for 3.x classes converted in PFRPG or not... however, no mentions to Feats requirements are mentioned.
In PFRPG, it doesn't matter anymore if a Skill is a Class-skill or not - at 7th level (for example) any character can invest a maximum of 7 ranks into ANY skill - class or not; the only difference is, a Class skill gives a +3 bonus to the skill - and nothing else.
See page 52:
"At first level, your character gains a number of skill points dependent upon your class plus your Intelligence...
Yes,
I understand the new skill rules. This is why the prestige class requirements had to change, to accomodate the fact that there are no double points per rank for non-class skills.There is, functionally, no difference between saying 'You must have 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana)' for a prestige class, and saying 'You must have 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana)' for a feat in 3.x. By the same token, there should be no difference in PF. It may only talk about prestige classes in the paragraph, but that is because the paragraph was dealing with prestige classes. There was no corresponding entry in the beta on how to handle skill level requirements in PF. For example, in 3.x if a feat requires 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), then someone with that skill as a class skill can get the feat at 3rd level. However, someone with it as a class skill can only get it at 10th level.
In PF, by your logic, everyone can get it at 5th level. That negates the bonus for a skill being a class skill. If you follow the same requirements as for PrC's though, you get :
5 - 3 = 2 or 2 ranks for a class skill, and 4 ranks for a non-class.
That's allowing the feat much faster for both class and non-class skills (2nd vs 3rd, and 4th vs 10th). So it really doesn't work either way (this same problem exists for PrC's too of course). But it's at least consistent with the rest of the RAW.
In PF, by your logic, everyone can get it at 5th level. That negates the bonus for a skill being a class skill. If you follow the same requirements as for PrC's though, you get :
5 - 3 = 2 or 2 ranks for a class skill, and 4 ranks for a non-class.That's allowing the feat much faster for both class and non-class skills (2nd vs 3rd, and 4th vs 10th). So it really doesn't work either way (this same problem exists for PrC's too of course). But it's at least consistent with the rest of the RAW.
Yes, I would allow such a feat at 5th level for every class - I would also allow any class for taking any Prestige Class at the base requisite of a required skill (not x2).
Remember that the Sidebar showing the x2 Rule was made before the Prestige Class Web Enhancement was released - the rules for converting PrC were still 'work in progress' back then (the sidebar was copied/pasted from the Alpha version - I double-checked in these days). The PrC Web Enhancement doesn't mention the 'skill x2 tax' anymore...
However, it's only a matter of a couple of months now to see what the final version has decided on the matter. Then, we could determine if a Favored Soul is viable for Epic Spells to a reasonable level or not (or we could always add Knowlegde (religion) to his list of Class Skills as you already did to bypass such a problem...)
Just my 2c.
I can't think of the Duero or the lizardfolk right now, but statwise, I would say Catfolk stays +1 LA. The other should be fine without LA.
On Lizardfolk - if you enforced the character having the 2 racial HD, should be good to go without an LA, though just barely. I did a Lizardfolk progression in one of my campaigns.