In my gaming group, we are confused how the cloak of the manta ray is supposed to work. Here's what the rules say:
This cloak appears to be made of leather until the wearer enters salt water.
At that time, the cloak of the manta ray adheres to the individual, and he appears nearly identical to a manta ray (as the beast shape II spell, except that it allows only manta ray form). He gains a +3 natural armor bonus, the ability to breathe underwater, and a swim speed of 60 feet, like a real manta ray.
Although the cloak does not enable the wearer to bite opponents as a manta ray does, it does have a tail spine that can be used to strike at opponents behind the wearer, dealing 1d6 points of damage. This attack can be used in addition to any other attack the character has, using his highest melee attack bonus. The wearer can release his arms from the cloak without sacrificing underwater movement if so desired.
These questions have come up:
Is this an actual polymorph effect? Does it grant all the benefits from beast shape II? Do those stack with the bonus listed in the item description? Do magic items "melt away" while transformed? Or does the wearer just "appear nearly identical" but no actual polymorphing takes place? Can the wielder release his arms from the cloak to employ weapons in melee?
I agree that it's ambiguous. I would probably either (a) delete the reference to Beast Shape II and say it's not a real polymorph effect, or (b) delete everything else and just say "it works as Beast Shape II, except you can only turn into a manta ray" (full stop).
I agree that it's ambiguous. I would probably either (a) delete the reference to Beast Shape II and say it's not a real polymorph effect, or (b) delete everything else and just say "it works as Beast Shape II, except you can only turn into a manta ray" (full stop).
I can't agree with that. To me, it seems like it's describing a magic item that has specific added benefit over Beast Shape II combined with specific restrictions.
Manta Ray is a Large Animal (per SRD). Beast Shape II say, paraphrasing here, you can turn into a large animal (limited to Manta Ray for this instance). The text about 'Nearly identical to a Manta Ray' seems to fit with the new idea of Polymorph, you are not a Manta Ray, but you look like one, and you get a bunch of the benefits of being one. Now, Beast Shape II says you get the following benefits :
Large Animal
+4 enhancement Bonus to STR
-2 Penalty on your Dexterity
+4 Natural Armor Bonus
Any of the following if the animal has it :
Climb/Fly/Swim : 60 feet
Darkvision 60 feet
Lowlight
Scent
Improved Grab
Pounce
Trip
Ok, so, for our purposes, Manta Ray is a Large Animal with a Swim (30) speed and Low-Light vision (per SRD). However, the item description specifically says 'Swim 60 like a real Manta Ray'. Since we don't have the PF beastiary at this point, we'll have to go with the description of the item. The item seems to specifically limit the Natural Armor Bonus to +3 instead of the normal +4 from the spell. It also specifically adds 'Breath under Water' which I can't find in Beast Shape II (I think that's an oversight that will probably be fixed in the final version of the game).
So,
+4 Ehancement to STR
-2 Penalty to DEX
+3 Natural Armor Bonus (Item specifically overrides spell here)
Low-Light Vision
Swim 60 Feet
Able to breath water
Tail Spine attack (Specifically granted by item, above and beyond spell effect)
Since the effect is 'as Beast Shape II', and for Polymorph spells, all equipment melds into you, I'd say your equipment becomes part of your new body. This makes sense, as a Manta Ray is not in any possible imaginary way shaped like a human. So, you look like every other manta ray swimming around, and you can use your spine attack.
The only items that work are those that don't need activations and provide a constant, non armor, bonus. So a periapt of Wisdom functions, bracers of Armor don't (although, honestly, I don't see why they wouldn't, armor shouldn't, but bracers should, but that should probably be handled in the BoA description, something like 'This item, unlike all other items, does continue to provide an Armor bonus when the wearer is polymorphed', but that's just me).
Another rule of thumb on why your equipment merges with you. If it didn't, you'd have to leave it all behind to use the Cloak of the Manta Ray. That makes it almost useless, since no-one wants to leave all their equipment behind.
I agree that it's ambiguous. I would probably either (a) delete the reference to Beast Shape II and say it's not a real polymorph effect, or (b) delete everything else and just say "it works as Beast Shape II, except you can only turn into a manta ray" (full stop).I can't agree with that.
You can't agree that I would probably do that? ;-)
You can't agree that I would probably do that? ;-)I agree that it's ambiguous. I would probably either (a) delete the reference to Beast Shape II and say it's not a real polymorph effect, or (b) delete everything else and just say "it works as Beast Shape II, except you can only turn into a manta ray" (full stop).I can't agree with that.
Actually, I can't agree with what you would probably do. Since we don't know each other, I can't agree or disagree with what you would probably do. For example, it could be probable that you'd wear whip cream on your head and show up for your game in your birthday suit and claim you were coming in character. But since I don't know you personally, I can't agree or disagree with you probably doing that.
*evil grin*
Some wrong stuff.
Look at Cloak of the Bat:
If he desires, the wearer can actually polymorph himself into an ordinary bat and fly accordingly (as beast shape III). All possessions worn or carried are part of the transformation.
Now look at Cloak of the Manta Ray:
At that time, the cloak of the manta ray adheres to the individual, and he appears nearly identical to a manta ray (as the beast shape II spell, except that it allows only manta ray form).
This doesn't say he actually polymorphs (note that Cloak of the Bat uses that exact phrase, "actually polymorph).
So he doesn't polymorph.
But he does "appear nearly identical to a manta ray" in the same fashion that someone useing a Beast Shape spell appears nearly identical to what they change into. This reference to the Beast Shape is only to clarify wht it means to "appear nearly identical" and does not in any way imply gaining the powers of a Beast Shape spell.
Furthermore, the idea that
Since the effect is 'as Beast Shape II', and for Polymorph spells, all equipment melds into you, I'd say your equipment becomes part of your new body. This makes sense, as a Manta Ray is not in any possible imaginary way shaped like a human. So, you look like every other manta ray swimming around, and you can use your spine attack.
Of course the equipment melds into you. A manta ray wearing plate mail won't swim far or fast, and won't fool anyone that he's a manta ray.
But you're wrong about getting no other attacks.
it does have a tail spine that can be used to strike at opponents behind the wearer, dealing 1d6 points of damage. This attack can be used in addition to any other attack the character has, using his highest melee attack bonus. The wearer can release his arms from the cloak without sacrificing underwater movement if so desired.
So you see, you get all your regular attacks, with your sword or axe or Staff of Fire, or whatever, and you get a tail spine attack.
Further, you can release your arms from the cloak whenever you want. If you do, I have no doubt that you will look like a very strange manta ray with arms, carrying a sword (or whatever).
Given this, and that final reference to "release his arms from the cloak", I have to conclude that when using this cloak, you do not actually polymorph into a manta ray - you are just a guy wearing a magical cloak that lets him swim, breath, sting, and look like a manta ray.
I reiterate, you don't actually polymorph. Remember how Cloak of the Bat says you do, but this item does not?
Because you are not actually polymorphed, your items don't become useless like they do with an actual polymorph effect.
Because you are not actually polymorphed, you don't get all the bonuses from Beast Shape II. No enhancement to STR, no penalty to DEX, no lowlight vision.
You're still just a guy in cloak, who happens to look like a manta ray, and you only get the benefits that are listed in the item's description.
<stuff>
Blech.
I missed that last line in the item description (the arms stuff).
Ok, I have to agree with DM_Blake then. On the other hand, this is a weird item. If you have arms, you aren't like a Manta Ray, and the whole reference to Beast Shape II should be removed. It has nothing to do with the spell.
<stuff>
Blech.
I missed that last line in the item description (the arms stuff).
Ok, I have to agree with DM_Blake then. On the other hand, this is a weird item. If you have arms, you aren't like a Manta Ray, and the whole reference to Beast Shape II should be removed. It has nothing to do with the spell.
Agreed.
I don't see that the item's description gains anything by this reference, but it sure does gain a lot of room for mininterpretation.
Even with your arms tucked into the cloak, so you really do look like a manta ray, it is sufficient to just say this in the item's description without refernecing a spell that has inapplicable effects.
Ok, I have to agree with DM_Blake then. On the other hand, this is a weird item. If you have arms, you aren't like a Manta Ray, and the whole reference to Beast Shape II should be removed. It has nothing to do with the spell.
That's what I was trying to say with my original message; it's not clear at all if you're a non-polymorphed guy with some manta-ray-like aspects, or polymorphed into a manta ray with some human-like aspects. So either make it just like Beast Shape II, or delete the reference altogether.