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I decided to compile the info we have on the various Demon Lords from the Golarion Campaign Setting, Second Darkness and the Pathfinder Wiki that a Cleric (NPC or otherwise) of that Demon Lord would need to play their character, just to have it in one document for easy reference. Any information from adventures or supplements that I don't have would be very welcome!
Format
Name - spheres of influence - Domains - favored weapon (Drow house affiliation, if any)
Golarion Campaign Setting and 2nd Darkness info;
Lamashtu – madness, monsters, nightmares – Chaos, Evil, Madness, Strength, Trickery – falchion
Abraxas – magic, forbidden lore – Chaos, Evil, Knowledge, Magic – whip (Drow house Azrinae)
Angazhan - apes, jungles – Animal, Chaos, Evil, Plant – spear
Baphomet – labyrinths, beasts – Animal, Chaos, Evil, Strength – glaive
Cyth-V’sug – fungus, parasites – Chaos, Earth, Evil, Plant – scimitar (Drow house Udrinor)
Dagon – the sea, sea monsters – Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Water – trident
Deskari – locusts, infestation – Chaos, Destruction, Evil, War – scythe
Kostchtchie – giants, cold – Chaos, Evil, Strength, War – warhammer
Nocticula – darkness, lust – Chaos, Charm, Evil, Darkness – hand crossbow (Drow house Misraria)
Orcus – undead, necromancy – Chaos, Death, Evil, Magic – heavy mace
Pazuzu – winged creatures, the sky – Air, Chaos, Evil, Trickery – longsword** (longsword in GCS, falchion on Pathfinder Wiki)
Shax – lies, murder – Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Trickery – dagger (Drow house Vexidyre)
Socothbenoth – perversion, tattoos – Charm, Chaos, Evil, Travel – quarterstaff (drow house Sardavic)
Zura – cannibalism, vampires – Chaos, Death, Evil, Madness – rapier (Drow house Rasivrein)
Other Demon Lords;
Sphere of info from Golarion Campaign setting, Drow house affiliations from Second Darkness, Domain info from Wiki (speculative info in italics)
Aldinach – sand, scorpions – Animal, Chaos, Evil, Sun – kukri
Andirifkhu – knives, traps – Chaos, Evil – dagger? (Drow house Dolour)
Areshkagal – portals, riddles – Air, Chaos, Evil, Trickery – sickle (Drow house Vonnarc)
Flauros – fire, salamanders – Chaos, Evil, Fire - spear? (Drow house Caldrana)
Gogunta – boggards, swamps – Chaos, Death, Evil, Scalykind, Water – whip
Haagenti – alchemy, change – Chaos, Evil - (Drow house Parastric)
Jezelda – moon, werewolves – Chaos, Evil –
Jubilex – poison, ooze – Chaos, Evil, Water? – (Drow house Tracinoa)
Kabriri – graves, ghouls – Chaos, Death?, Evil
Mazmezz – vermin, bindings – Animal?, Chaos, Evil – whip or net? (Drow house Moivas)
Mestama – hags, deception – Chaos, Evil, Magic?, Trickery? –
Sifkesh – heresy, suicide – Chaos, Evil –
Urxehl – storms, trolls – Chaos, Evil, Fire, Weather – greatclub
Xoveron – gargoyles, ruins – Chaos, Destruction?, Earth?, Evil –
Zevgavizeb – caverns, troglodytes – Chaos, Earth?, Evil, Scalykind? –
Gogunta and Lmashtu both end up with five Domains, and, in Lamashtu's case, it's deliberate as she's broken the glass ceiling and become a full-fledged god(dess). In Gogunta's case, I'm not so sure this is a good precedent, since it suggests that the other Demon Lords with races of worshippers, such as Zevgavizeb, Xoveron, Urzehl, Mestama, Kabriri, Jubilex, Jezelda, Flauros, Baphomet, Kostchtchie, etc. may *also* qualify for five Domains and full 'god' status...
I kinda prefer Asmodeus and Lamashtu being the only 'exceptions' to this soft 'four Domains for Demon Lords, Archdevils and Empyreal Lords' and 'five Domains for 'real' gods' rule. I'd dump the Death domain from her list, given a chance to put her back in her 'place.'
While some of the incomplete Demon Lords seem to write themselves (Xoveron with Destruction and Earth, Zevgarizeb with Earth and Scalykind), others, such as Sifkesh and Andirifkhu, don't seem quite as intuitive as to what Domains they would likely grant their Clerical followers.
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While some of the incomplete Demon Lords seem to write themselves (Xoveron with Destruction and Earth, Zevgarizeb with Earth and Scalykind), others, such as Sifkesh and Andirifkhu, don't seem quite as intuitive as to what Domains they would likely grant their Clerical followers.
Well, they ARE chaotic afterall...
Creative Director
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Pathfinder #18 lists all the domains for all of the demon lords.
Sifkesh, for example, grants Chaos, Evil, Madness, and Trickery.
Andirifkhu grants Chaos, Evil, Luck, and Trickery.
I don't have time to go through and detail them all, but if you're looking for information about the demon lords of Golarion, this 10-page article in Pathfinder #18 is pretty much the primary go-to source right now.
EDIT: Lamashtu's the only demon lord who should be granting 5 domains; Gogunta's been officialized as of PF #18 as granting Chaos, Death, Evil, and Water.
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Pathfinder #18 lists all the domains for all of the demon lords.
Sifkesh, for example, grants Chaos, Evil, Madness, and Trickery.
Andirifkhu grants Chaos, Evil, Luck, and Trickery.I don't have time to go through and detail them all, but if you're looking for information about the demon lords of Golarion, this 10-page article in Pathfinder #18 is pretty much the primary go-to source right now.
EDIT: Lamashtu's the only demon lord who should be granting 5 domains; Gogunta's been officialized as of PF #18 as granting Chaos, Death, Evil, and Water.
Awesome, thanks!
I actually own that one, but must have thrown it in the don't-read pile since I was going through Second Darkness at the time (still am, actually, but I guess I can read the backup articles...).
Where is Demogorgon? Why isn't Big D named in any of the Paizo works (or have I missed him?)? We have Grazzt and Orcus, why not the Prince of Demons too? Perhaps he's not OGL?
Pathfinder #18 Set Piece Spoiler:
** spoiler omitted **
He's a god. Take that sidebar as the definitive word on the matter. Also, 5 domains equals deity. Few equates to something less.
I am highly upset I did not make the list! I am very very cross with you.
Glares evilly at set, while petting a tribble
Pathfinder #18 Set Piece Spoiler:
** spoiler omitted **
Mwah-hah. >:D
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Creative Director
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Where is Demogorgon? Why isn't Big D named in any of the Paizo works (or have I missed him?)? We have Grazzt and Orcus, why not the Prince of Demons too? Perhaps he's not OGL?
While Demogorgon is from real-world myth... his incarnation in D&D as a two-headed tentacled awesome monster is Wizards of the Coast's intellectual property. The real-world Demogorgon is nothing more than a name, likely one made up by a monk back in the 6th century who wanted a scary-sounding name to punch up some text he was transcribing (true story!), that later on got brought into Paradise Lost by Milton as another name drop.
So, while we COULD do something with Demogorgon in Paizo products, but we'd have to completely redesign his looks and stats, and then he wouldn't be Demogorgon as we know and love him. So he's left out.
Graz'zt is 100% Wizards of the Coast's property; he was invented completely by Gygax and has no real-world mythology to back him up. As a result, we DON'T have Graz'zt at all in our products... you must have misread something somewhere, but if you didn't, please let me know where you read Graz'zt's name in a Pathfinder product so I can start doing damage control and head off what could be a legitimate legal problem.
Orcus, on the other hand, has the magic combo of being from mythology AND having his D&D incarnation as an undead lord with a ram's head and a killer wand statted up in an open source—the Tome of Horrors, from Necromancer Games. That version, which is 100% open content, is one we can use... but still, since Orcus is so heavily identified with WotC AND Necromancer Games products, we're avoiding doing too much with him so as not to "poach" on their fun.
So, while we COULD do something with Demogorgon in Paizo products, but we'd have to completely redesign his looks and stats, and then he wouldn't be Demogorgon as we know and love him. So he's left out.
Or, just name drop and leave it at that. Makes the majority happy, I'd wager.
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Creative Director
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So, while we COULD do something with Demogorgon in Paizo products, but we'd have to completely redesign his looks and stats, and then he wouldn't be Demogorgon as we know and love him. So he's left out.Or, just name drop and leave it at that. Makes the majority happy, I'd wager.
Honestly... even a name drop feels a bit sketchy to me, since if we name drop, folks would take that for more than just a name drop. Furthermore, we've more or less "replaced" Demogorgon's role in Golarion anyway with Lamashtu as the boss demon. If someone out there wants to replace Lamashtu with Demogorgon in their home Golarion game, that's a great solution and one that the design of the world supports pretty well, but I'd rather not officially drop his name into Paizo products since we can never really follow up on something like that. All other "name drops" can, potentially, lead to new products. A Demogorgon name drop is a dead end.
And Lamashtu is much cooler than Demogorgon at this point. She epitomizes what I picture when I think about Golarion's demons. The rivalry between her and Pazuzu, and potentially an up and coming Nocticula is much more interesting, novel, and full of wonderful plot hooks. Adding in Demogorgon and a lot of the assumptions he/they would carry isn't worth the inclusion in my mind.
Consider me very much on the same page as James on this one.
Where is the Demon Lord of Stubbed Toes and Paper Cuts?
Oh him, not sure last I seem him he was chasing a Koblod in a towel after that Shrugs shoulder
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I feel that Angazhan fills in for the Demogorgon depicted in Savage Tide quite nicely, with the whole savagry angle. More ape, less tentacle, but otherwise anything Demogorgon-specific could be ported down into the Mwangwi Expanse and done with Angazhan.
If one wants to make the parallel more obvious in a home game, the 'savage anger' of Angazhan could result from the Demon Lord having a split personality (or even a split soul, with one perhaps being the soul of something the other consumed, that sometimes wants to tear it's way free, but settles for tearing apart everything around it!), one cruel and manipulative and the other frothing in a constant, terrible rage, so that the Demon Lord is constantly trapped in a state between being a schemer of destructive schemes and a rampaging force of destruction.
Socothbenoth and Nocticula, between them, seem likely to be able to fill in the Grazz't niche (the Demon Lord I'd miss the most), although Mestama, patron of witches, might also cover some of that turf. Heck, if the three of them could get along long enough to do something like that, perhaps witches covens might worship a 'three-faced goddess' whose hidden shrines are devoted to Maiden (Nocticula), Mother (Lamashtu) and Crone (Mestama)!
Kabriri covers some of Yeenoghu's territory, and could be tweaked to become popular among certain Gnoll tribes who have turned away from Lamashtu.
Mazzmez, Demon Lord (Lady) of vermin and bindings, makes a fine 'Lolth' for those who want to have some spider-themed Drow skulking about, just for old-times sake.
Pretty much all of the old bases are covered (Zuggtmoy as Cyth-V'sug, for example), one way or another. Would I rather have Grazz't, Yeenoghu and Demogorgon to have made the OGL cut rather than schmoes like Kostchtchie and Jubilex? Sure, but we take what we can get. :)
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Creative Director
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Many of the demon lords I introduced in Golarion are, to a certain extent, intended to "cover" for demon lords that are more identified with WotC campaign worlds or simply aren't open content. The previous post inspired me to
Here's how I would see those "replacements" going (although of course, in a home game, a GM is absolutely free to mix and match all demon lords from all over the place!):
WotC Demon Lord = Paizo Demon Lord
Baphomet = Baphomet
Dagon = Dagon
Demogorgon = Lamashtu
Fraz-Urb'luu = Mestama
Graz'zt = Socothbenoth
Juiblex = Jubilex (not the tricksy different spellings!)
Kostchtchie = Kostchtchie
Malcanthet = Nocticula
Obox-ob = Rovagug*
Orcus = Orcus
Pale Night = Sifkesh
Pazuzu = Pazuzu
Yeenoghu = Lamashtu (for gnolls) or Kabriri (for ghouls)
Zuggtmoy = Cyth-V'sug
*Rovagug's not a demon lord, but he's pretty much the way Obox-ob functions in my home-brew world on which most of Golarion's gods are based. If you're looking for an actual demon lord to stand in for Obox-ob, I'd suggest Aldinach.
Furthermore, we've more or less "replaced" Demogorgon's role in Golarion anyway with Lamashtu as the boss demon.
Lamashtu is a thousand times more compelling than Demogorgon. Just reading the fiction related to Lamashtu and what she does (such as the stuff from the first AP related to Nualia) gives me far more ideas than any description of Demogorgon or how he operates.
Lamashtu > Demogorgon.
Graz'zt is 100% Wizards of the Coast's property; he was invented completely by Gygax and has no real-world mythology to back him up. As a result, we DON'T have Graz'zt at all in our products... you must have misread something somewhere, but if you didn't, please let me know where you read Graz'zt's name in a Pathfinder product so I can start doing damage control and head off what could be a legitimate legal problem.
No worries, James. I'm 99% sure I'm mistaken on the Graz'zt issue. As for Big D, it's sad to see him "go" since he's been a favorite of mine since the 1st Monster Manual. Howevever, I'm completely in love with Lamashtu so I don't think I'll miss him very much.
Lamashtu is my Seoni. Sigh.
Lamashtu is my Seoni. Sigh.
A man after my own heart. Maybe we should ask for a Lamashtu centerfold in Lords of Chaos? ;)
More on topic -- I'm curious about the drow house that worships Zura. As she's the Demon Queen of Cannibalism (but what about Kabriri?), does that mean that the drow of that house engage in regular meals of 'long pig'? I'm getting this idea of all the major nobles being vampire drow with the lesser being cannibals.
Socothbenoth – perversion, tattoos – Charm, Chaos, Evil, Travel – quarterstaff (drow house Sardavic)
Nice summary - thank you.
... But isn't Soccothbenoth supposed to be the demon lord of perversion and taboos??
...Must go read my books again - maybe I've been reading it wrong all this time... ^^'
Thanks again.
-- C.
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Psiphyre, it's hard to connect D&D myth with real world myth.
It just don't work. I think back in the day Ward and Gygax and them didn't really do any research at all (they didn't have Wiki).
Glasya is male -- not the daughter of Asmodeus.
Asmodeus is the king of lust and wrath.
Moloch/Molech was a god of fire, not a demon (devil).
Baalzebub was NEVER an angel named Triel.
Belphegor, Belial, Geryon -- all wrong.
They got Mammon right, though.
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Creative Director
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Lamashtu is my Seoni. Sigh.A man after my own heart. Maybe we should ask for a Lamashtu centerfold in Lords of Chaos? ;)
More on topic -- I'm curious about the drow house that worships Zura. As she's the Demon Queen of Cannibalism (but what about Kabriri?), does that mean that the drow of that house engage in regular meals of 'long pig'? I'm getting this idea of all the major nobles being vampire drow with the lesser being cannibals.
Yes. The drow who worship Zura do indeed periodically eat drow. Although the MAJORITY of the drow who worship Zura only drink blood; a fair number of them are vampires.
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Creative Director
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Socothbenoth – perversion, tattoos – Charm, Chaos, Evil, Travel – quarterstaff (drow house Sardavic)
Nice summary - thank you.
... But isn't Soccothbenoth supposed to be the demon lord of perversion and taboos??
...Must go read my books again - maybe I've been reading it wrong all this time... ^^'
Thanks again.
-- C.
Correct; Socothbenoth is the demon lord of perversion and taboos. He LIKES tattoos, sure, but he's not particularly into them except in societies and cultures where tattoos are taboos.
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Creative Director
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Psiphyre, it's hard to connect D&D myth with real world myth.
It just don't work. I think back in the day Ward and Gygax and them didn't really do any research at all (they didn't have Wiki).
Glasya is male -- not the daughter of Asmodeus.
Asmodeus is the king of lust and wrath.
Moloch/Molech was a god of fire, not a demon (devil).
Baalzebub was NEVER an angel named Triel.
Belphegor, Belial, Geryon -- all wrong.
They got Mammon right, though.
One of the things D&D has done from the start, and it's something we continue to do, is to use mythology as a starting place for things like this but not as a bible. We take names and legends and myths and change them to both make the elements fit Golarion better and to move it away from the actual myths. It's the same reason why we have Osirion in or world as a place that's KIND of like Egypt but not. It lets us retain touchstones in the context of the game world, but since they're not EXACT, we don't have to be better authorities on these countless real-world elements than the rest of the world. Which, if we DID want to include these creatures in a completely real-world-accurate way, we would have to be.
It's essentially the same technique that Robert E. Howard used to create the Hyborean Age for his Conan stories. Use familiar touchstones, but then change them so that they work better for the stories you want and so that YOU are the expert on the world, not someone else.
Yes. The drow who worship Zura do indeed periodically eat drow. Although the MAJORITY of the drow who worship Zura only drink blood; a fair number of them are vampires.Lamashtu is my Seoni. Sigh.A man after my own heart. Maybe we should ask for a Lamashtu centerfold in Lords of Chaos? ;)
More on topic -- I'm curious about the drow house that worships Zura. As she's the Demon Queen of Cannibalism (but what about Kabriri?), does that mean that the drow of that house engage in regular meals of 'long pig'? I'm getting this idea of all the major nobles being vampire drow with the lesser being cannibals.
I figured that they would eat the servants without hesitating (heck of a retirement plan!), but I'm surprised to hear that they eat other drow as well.
Now I want to go and read the demon lord article in PF #18 again to try and figure out what the other drow houses do to honor their patron demons. Going from what I remember right now, at least you'll have a fun (less awful?) time if you're enslaved to the houses that worship Socothbenoth and Nocticula.
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One of the things D&D has done from the start, and it's something we continue to do, is to use mythology as a starting place
Oh man, sorry that my post sounded like a complaint; it was unintentional!
I like the VAST majority of D&D interpretations.
And, considering the VAST discrepancies of these myths (Asmodeus is King of Lust only in some, King of Lust and Wrath in few, for example), there's no way to really be accurate.
AND, considering that a vast number of people, including some gamers, would become uncomfortable if D&D Devil/Demon myth and Judeo Christian myth were vastly similar, it would be inappropriate for Designers to go out of their way to make them so.
It's no big deal that Tiamat is a personification of the Ocean, not a Dragon.
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I figured that they would eat the servants without hesitating (heck of a retirement plan!), but I'm surprised to hear that they eat other drow as well.
I guess it makes sense. It wouldn't technically be cannibalism if Drow just ate humans or whatever (and I would expect this to be ritual stuff, for holy days and ceremonies, and not like breakfast, lunch and dinner!).
Although eating non-Drow elves would probably be close enough for government work...