| Azernak0 |
I like what Pathfinder did with Polymorph. Making it gives static bonuses is very niceand stops massive rules abuse. Doing a Google search shows that most DM's flat out ban Polymorph/Wildshape because they are too low level for the benefits they give or with the inclusion of certain books it gets to be completely stupid. If you have played 3.5 and you have encountered a Wizard who Polymorphs into a War Troll, you know what I mean.
But I am really confused about why Druid's Wildshape was hit so hard in this nerf to Polymorph. It seems like the firefighters decided to demolish the house that was right next to the inferno in fear that it would catch fire as well. Here area few reasons why I feel that the Wildshape/Beastshape change is silly:
1. Polymorph has a much larger selection of creatures.Polymorph has more choices and has more powerful choices.
2. Wizards can speak and cast spells without dropping feats. Wildshape and Polymorph are not the same.
3. Druids can not speak in Wildshape. There is no item to my knowledge that allowes this in other supplements.
4. Wizards can wear gear while Polymorphed. In fact, it specifically says that all gear reforms to fit you if the form can wear it. Druids need to drop their amulets and belts and have somene else put them on in order to gain the benefits. When they change forms, it drops to the ground. Or the DM can simply say "No gear in Wildshape."
5. Polymorph is not a core component of Wizards.One of the most popular
guide for Wizards, "Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizards: Being Batman", states that: "Polymorph: far better than any other spell of its level, and many higher-level spells. The things you can do with this are ridiculous. It's completely broken, so much so WotC has given up on trying to fix it. Just don't use it". Remove Polymorph, and 'Batman' still spams Save-or-Lose, Buffs, and No-Save Battlefield Control Spells. The Druid class was built around having Wildshape and Paizo didn't change them enough to warrent losing such an important part of the class.
How does everyone else feel about this? Best of luck.
| HaraldKlak |
1. Polymorph has a much larger selection of creatures.Polymorph has more choices and has more powerful choices.
2. Wizards can speak and cast spells without dropping feats. Wildshape and Polymorph are not the same.
3. Druids can not speak in Wildshape. There is no item to my knowledge that allowes this in other supplements.
4. Wizards can wear gear while Polymorphed. In fact, it specifically says that all gear reforms to fit you if the form can wear it. Druids need to drop their amulets and belts and have somene else put them on in order to gain the benefits. When they change forms, it drops to the ground. Or the DM can simply say "No gear in Wildshape."
5. Polymorph is not a core component of Wizards.One of the most popular
guide for Wizards, "Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizards: Being Batman", states that: "Polymorph: far better than any other spell of its level, and many higher-level spells. The things you can do with this are ridiculous. It's completely broken, so much so WotC has given up on trying to fix it. Just don't use it". Remove Polymorph, and 'Batman' still spams Save-or-Lose, Buffs, and No-Save Battlefield Control Spells. The Druid class was built around having Wildshape and Paizo didn't change them enough to warrent losing such an important part of...
I am not sure whether you compare the balance of 3.5 or Pathfinder. But I will try to view your points from a Pathfinder view.
1) Yes, wizard have a greater choice of creatures (though through various spells at different levels. There is still some problems with some of the choices the Druid might choose.
2) If the wizard takes a form which does not allow casting spells, then the same rules apply. Natural spell is a necessity for almost any druid, but that does give the druid an advantage over the wizard in the same form, who cannot cast spells.
3) As 2, but I agree that this rule is primarily annoying to the wildshaping druid who cannot communicate with his party. I would use a custom spell to mitigate this problem.
4) Again, wizards can, unless the use Beast Shape, Plant Shape, Elemental Body or Form of the Dragon, where they are the same as druids. For both however, you don't drop your equipment, it melds into your body. Constant bonusses, such as most rings, amulets and belts, still apply.
EDIT: 5) They didn't lose wildshape... There is still a lot of versatility in the spell. And at lower levels it is a really good buff for the combat oriented druid. Playing a lvl 7 druid I am the main damage dealer of my party (a cleric and a barbarian) due to several attacks and a pet wolf on the side.
Generally you can argue that wildshape isn't satisfying enough. I will properly agree when my druid hit lvl 12 and has nothing new to wait for. But I think this problem should be solved by some additional bonusses (as some has proposed on this forum).
| Samuli |
4) Again, wizards can, unless the use Beast Shape, Plant Shape, Elemental Body or Form of the Dragon, where they are the same as druids. For both however, you don't drop your equipment, it melds into your body. Constant bonusses, such as most rings, amulets and belts, still apply
Not true, as it says in the same sentence that speaks about equipment melding to your body (bolding is mine).
Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.
| HaraldKlak |
HaraldKlak wrote:4) Again, wizards can, unless the use Beast Shape, Plant Shape, Elemental Body or Form of the Dragon, where they are the same as druids. For both however, you don't drop your equipment, it melds into your body. Constant bonusses, such as most rings, amulets and belts, still applyNot true, as it says in the same sentence that speaks about equipment melding to your body (bolding is mine).
SRD wrote:Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.
In pathfidner however, it is different.
Wildshape functions as Beast Shape, Elemental Body, or Plant shape unless otherwise noted. Nothing concerning gear is mentioned, so the polymorph rules apply.... all your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cconnot be used while you maintain that form.
| Samuli |
In pathfidner however, it is different.
Wildshape functions as Beast Shape, Elemental Body, or Plant shape unless otherwise noted. Nothing concerning gear is mentioned, so the polymorph rules apply.
Whoa, they changed that? And our rules lawyer druid player didn't notice it? I was totally leaning on his expertise on the matter. Pardon me - and I can't wait to get home to read the rules myself.