S
P
A
C
E
In his interview with RPG Blog II, Eric Mona said something that is very intriging ...
I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but I think it would be fun to see the Pathfinder RPG rules applied in a science fictional context. This could range from something relatively simple, such as an exploration of the Red and Green Planets of Golarion's star with rules to place a "sword & planet" lens over a standard Pathfinder campaign to something full-on ambitious like a complete science fiction rules engine with tons of laser guns and stuff.
Is this a realistic possibility?
I know I would be interresting in this, would others? :)
|
I would really love to see either or both! A Sword and Planet supplement would be good for a Golarion expansion, but a more Sci-Fi or Space Opera style probably should have a separate setting, lest too much of it creep into Golarion itself. A single "Barrier Peaks" inspired scenario could be fun, but I don't necessarily want Golarion to be a primitive backwater planet in Dragonstar, at least not officially.
I'd love to see a "fantasy spacetravel" setting like Spelljammer (with better support, of course). I still think that was one of the most innovative settings to come out of TSR (yes, even more so than Dark Sun's "fantasy post-apocalypse") and management just couldn't figure out what to do with it.
I would really love to see either or both! A Sword and Planet supplement would be good for a Golarion expansion, but a more Sci-Fi or Space Opera style probably should have a separate setting, lest too much of it creep into Golarion itself. A single "Barrier Peaks" inspired scenario could be fun, but I don't necessarily want Golarion to be a primitive backwater planet in Dragonstar, at least not officially.
I agree! Cross contamination should be kept to a bare minimum.
People are already complaining that Golarion is too modern for their tastes, that could only make the problems worse.
something full-on ambitious like a complete science fiction rules engine with tons of laser guns and stuff.[/i]
Very disappointing. We'd need gigatons of laster guns, at the very least. A starship-mounted laster turret alone can weigh kilotons.
I'd love to see a SF themed rule book and some other supporting materials (adventures, etc).
On the idea of genres, (including "sword and planet"). I've been involved in a discussion on the Asimov's forum about Lost colonies. There's actually a lot of overlap between Post Apocalypse, Lost Colony, and Sword and Planet. I don't think it would be too difficult to include support for all three SF subgenres in the same rule system.
|
Here I am, a huge fan of the mileau of fantasy role-play as described by Gygax in many ways, and in myriad books. Yet, over the past 25+ years I haven't played even near the type of pulp science fantasy genre that Erik reads and blogs about at Lemuria Press. The fact is, I've always believed the space/pseudo-science belonged within the Gygaxian mileau, however it only manifested scarcely for me, like in "When A Star Falls" module, with a Machin-der-bozorg (spelling?) or an occasional nod to eqyptian or myan mythos symbols/setting or reference to aliens (or gods) having visited in past centuries....("Chariots of the Gods" anyone?) However, there are many, many examples where the two genres meet, or become one in the history of our game.
Yet, as I consider the OP's intrigue, I think about how this would play with our community? Well - its clear that the Pathfinder brand is strong enough to handle it. AND, it seems clear, by design, that this will indeed happen. So, the question is moreso - how will it happen?
I envision the name "Pathfinder" being a strong enough term to carry both a fantasy role-playing game and a sword & planet role-playing game. I would be surprised, based on Erik's reading list, whether this isn't already in the works. AND, that's not a bad thing.
I agree wholly with the post (above) that advised to use caution not to "muddle" one with the other too much. That is, I believe both can and will co-exist rather well, so long as I can continue to play "Pathfinder Fantasy Role-playing Game" and have the option to also play "Pathfinder Sword and Planet Role-playing Game" expansion rules. Yes, even I would give this a try. I have always loved science fiction/fantasy, but like a breakfast cereal topping, I have tried to use discretion in how much extra topping I mix with my cereal.
Very interesting thread. I will be watching this one.
Again, Pathfinder is clearly set up to handle sword and planet. Paizo is clearly anchored in supporting Planet Stories and Erik is uniquely gifted with a comprehensive understanding of pulp fantasy history, and has intimated on more than one occasion that he has had this interest.
My personal hope would be to see his ideas manifest, but not hijack the steady progress of Pathfinder as players #1 choice for fantasy role-playing.
There also needs to be a Pathfinder Firefly supplement....if they can get the rights to Firefly/Serenity.
Or just do Pathfinder Modern, then supplement it with Pathfinder Future, Pathfinder Past, Pathfinder Apocalypse, Pathfinder Cyberpunk, Pathfinder Conspiracy, Pathfinder Steampunk, Pathfinder Space Opera, Pathfinder Pirates, World War Pathfinder, etc. etc.
Is this a realistic possibility?
Yes.
Is this a realistic possibility?Yes.
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
|
|
THESE guys tried it but since it isn't OGL I can't get into it...a Pathfinder RPG rules based space campaign would be a hoot!
A space AP, perhaps almost like Pierre Barbet's Cosmic Crusaders (Baphomet's Meteor, et al) would be cool.
I been wanting to play something with Spelljammer flavor for sometime now.
Hmmm... Pathfinder Spelljammer? Is this something you're thinking about, Erik, or are you thinking more techno-space as something completely different then the classic sword-and-sorcery Pathfinder? A Pathfinder Spelljammer equivalent would certainly keep the medieval fantasy in the system rather then a d20-Techno-SciFi.
Denis, aka "Maldin" Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
There also needs to be a Pathfinder Firefly supplement....if they can get the rights to Firefly/Serenity.
There already is a Firefly/Serenety RPG. We have a campaign we play occasionally.
umm something spelljammer like would be most welcome, closer to spider moon then to space hamster however
There already is a Firefly/Serenety RPG. We have a campaign we play occasionally.There also needs to be a Pathfinder Firefly supplement....if they can get the rights to Firefly/Serenity.
Yes, from Margaret Weis Productions, it is quite good too.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
Closer to Spider Moon than to Space Hamster however.
"That's no Spider Moon. That's a Space Hamster. Turn the ship around...
EDIT:
Oh and I am all for both a full blown Ruleset for Modern/Sci-Fi Settings and a Pathfinder Chronicles Sourcebook detailing life on the Red & Green Planets (with minor notes on the others).
|
My personal hope would be to see (Mona's) ideas manifest, but not hijack the steady progress of Pathfinder as players #1 choice for fantasy role-playing.
I totally agree with this.
Seconded,
with the emphasis on not hijaking the Sword and Sorcery. Spelljamer-like product is good; I'll buy, but not much. Let it stand separate from the "Flag ship" product so the many who gobble this up can really dig in -- but design it seperate enough that those who only like it very occassionally only have to see it very occassionally.-W. E. Ray
I'd be all over a PF Chronicles book detailing campaigns on the Red & Green planets! Something to bring back those ERB memories from my youth.
Not personally interested in a full-blown sci-fi game, but I'm sure there are plenty of others who might be, when it comes time to do a poll...
I vote for two products:
1) A science fiction rules engine separate from Pathfinder Chronicles.
2) A Technology Sourcebook for use in both Pathfinder Chronicles and the sci-fi universe. One chapter each for ancient, Medieval, modern, steampunk, cyberpunk, and space opera technology, including currency, equipment, trade goods, and transportation.
I like this idea.
Maybe the first book will be basic Pathfinder Modern rules, and the second book can have rule sets for different technological and magical levels.
Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Dark Age, Medieval Age, Renaissance Age, Industrial Age, Information Age, Interplanetary Age, Interstellar Age, Intergalactic Age, etc.
Low Magic, High Magic, Ritual Magic, Alchemical Magic, Steampunk Magic, Herbal Magic, Psionics, Truename Magic, Shadow Magic, Mutant "Magic," Totem/Spirit/Vestige Magic, Talisman Magic, Superpowers "Magic," Vampire/Werewolf/Faerie template "Magic," Cthulu Magic, etc. etc.
For example, you could have the six basic classes (Strong Hero, Fast Hero, Tough Hero, Smart Hero, Dedicated Hero, Charismatic Hero), then provide alternative Talent trees for the levels of magic and/or technology, and provide different Starting Occupations for the different levels of magic and/or technology.
By combining the different technological and magical systems, you could come up with some interesting combinations, and it would be relatively modular, so it would be easy to use.
For example, you could combine Industrial Age and Cthulu magic for a "Shadows of Baker Street" style campaign in Victorian England, where Queen Victoria is a tentacled mostrosity. You could combine Superhero powers with Bronze Age technology for a Hercules or Xena type setting. You could combine Iron Age technology with Truename magic for a Celtic type setting.
Maybe the first book will be basic Pathfinder Modern rules, and the second book can have rule sets for different technological and magical levels.
I can see a problem with this. I don't believe that Hasbor/WoTC has surrendered control of their d20 Modern line. So I am not sure what the legalities of it would be.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
Maybe the first book will be basic Pathfinder Modern rules, and the second book can have rule sets for different technological and magical levels.I can see a problem with this. I don't believe that Hasbor/WoTC has surrendered control of their d20 Modern line. So I am not sure what the legalities of it would be.
It is able to be used under the Open Game Licence (First Document on the list - Legal Information).
Maybe the first book will be basic Pathfinder Modern rules, and the second book can have rule sets for different technological and magical levels.I can see a problem with this. I don't believe that Hasbor/WoTC has surrendered control of their d20 Modern line. So I am not sure what the legalities of it would be.It is able to be used under the Open Game Licence (First Document on the list - Legal Information).
SWEET!!! So we really could design a LEGAL Pathfinder Modern ruleset, and then plug in different technological and magical rule modules.
I smell a money maker!
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
|
I'm afraid we all have a pretty low opinion of the existing d20 Modern rules set, and would probably start over from scratch with something that would end up being more compatible with the Pathfinder rules.
No "strong heroes" for us, thanks.
That said, someone else will probably pull something like this together using the Pathfinder Compatibility License, so you don't need to wait for us.
My impression is that Fantasy is a larger audience than Science Fiction which is a larger audience than Modern.
I deal would be a system that could cover modern, sci-fi, post apoc, and so one, much like PFRPG is a fantasy tool kit
I think any such venture would best be Science Adventure--i.e., Science Fantasy/Space Opera, not true SF. There's a reason Star Wars is so popular with gamers...
I think a class structure similar to what Monte did with d20 Call of Cthulhu, powered up to Paizo levels, would be excellent for a sci-fi setting and could work well under the new ruleset. One class. Pick your saves and offense/defense options. Customize with feats and abilities as you see fit. MUCH better than "Fast Hero," etc...
Then again...folks do like their classes...
Brandon
Am I the only who likes the D20 Modern rules? OK, the Wealth system is kind of confusing...."You find a suitcase full of cash, worth +4 wealth..."
And I think it would work a little better with fractional BAB.
But other than that, it's pretty easy and versatile, especially with Starting Occupations and multi-classing (which is encouraged, if not down right required for 11th level and beyond!).
And I have a feeling a Pathfinderized version would combine Repair into the various Craft skills.
I have a slightly tangential question for everyone following this thread:
If Paizo were to make a class-based sci-fi game, what set of classes do you think they should they should use?
I think they should use Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, and Charismatic heroes, like from d20 Modern and d20 Future, but from the comments a lot of other people have made, it seems like I'm in the minority.
Besides, it's fun to play that game where you guess what classes your favorite characters are.
Like Mal is a Tough/Charismatic with the Criminal occupation
Zoe is a Tough with a Military occ.
Wash was a Fast with the Transporter occ.
Jayne is a Strong with a Criminal occ.
Kaylee is a Smart with a Blue Collar occ.
Inara is a Charismatic with a Celebrity or Dilettante or Creative occ.
Shepherd Book was a Dedicated with a Military occ...maybe Investigative
Simon is a Smart/Dedicated with a Doctor occ
River is a Fast/Dedicated with a weird psychic occ...maybe Creative or Student or Athlete (dancer).
I have a slightly tangential question for everyone following this thread:
If Paizo were to make a class-based sci-fi game, what set of classes do you think they should they should use?
I think they should use Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, and Charismatic heroes, like from d20 Modern and d20 Future, but from the comments a lot of other people have made, it seems like I'm in the minority.
Besides, it's fun to play that game where you guess what classes your favorite characters are.
Like Mal is a Tough/Charismatic with the Criminal occupation
Zoe is a Tough with a Military occ.
Wash was a Fast with the Transporter occ.
Jayne is a Strong with a Criminal occ.
Kaylee is a Smart with a Blue Collar occ.
Inara is a Charismatic with a Celebrity or Dilettante or Creative occ.
Shepherd Book was a Dedicated with a Military occ...maybe Investigative
Simon is a Smart/Dedicated with a Doctor occ
River is a Fast/Dedicated with a weird psychic occ...maybe Creative or Student or Athlete (dancer).
I disagree ... on some of your class and occupation assignments. :)
Actually, I do think that the attribute class system of d20 Modern would work quite well.
(I just don't agree with some of the "crunch" choices that they made.)
|
I'm afraid we all have a pretty low opinion of the existing d20 Modern rules set, and would probably start over from scratch with something that would end up being more compatible with the Pathfinder rules.
D20 was my dream come true! No longer do game authors need to write their own set of rules every time they release a campaign setting to avoid copyright. After two decades of campaign settings each played in their own vacuum, now we can mix and match races, classes, feats, spells, monsters into our own homebrew settings with ease!
Therefore, my greatest disappointment was the D20 Modern rules. Tantalisingly close to being compatible with D20 Fantasy, but with enough difference (armour and damage in particular) to make it much more difficult to cobble together a homebrew cross-genre setting, ala TORG. With a common D20 system, this should be a piece of cake. So close, but so far.
If Paizo (or anyone else) were to approach a Pathfinder Modern, I would like the number one goal to be true compatibility with Patfhinder Fantasy. I want to play out those Werewolves, Cyber-priests, Lizard-folk, Egyptian-pulp invasions on Earth's reality.
That said, someone else will probably pull something like this together using the Pathfinder Compatibility License, so you don't need to wait for us.
That would be my guess.
|
I realy dont see D20 as an option anymore. I'm involved in building a Sci-Fi Setting using Kriegspiel (the original Wargames Rules developed a hundred years ago).
THIS WARGAME FOCUSES ON THREE CRITICAL ASPECTS OF WAR: THE FRICTION OF WAR, CONTROL AND COMMUNICATION, AND THE ‘FOG OF WAR’; RELYING ON BATTLEFIELD EXPERIENCE OF THE UMPIRE TO ENSURE THAT WHAT HAPPENS IS WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF REALITY. THE GAME ITSELF REQUIRES PIECES (AND THEIR MOVEMENT) SCALED TO THE WARROOM MAP.
RUUL SIX: Is a Setting that begins in PHASE 1: FOOTHOLD of a not so unoccupied World. A Colonization shuttle drops an Environmental Terraforming Device on an inhabited valley and makes it "earth like". A Bot builds a base in that Valley (SITE A: VALLEYFORGE) over the next hundred years and then begins cloning Troopers to go out and reactivate the assorted Resource Mining Modules deployed during Atmospheric entry. During this phase they encounter primitive peoples and funky alien wildlife, as well as Bots and Computer Brains with plans of their own.
Eventually the Setting will advance into PHASE 2: EMPIRE which will involve the inclusion of Assimilated Aliens into the State to expand its dominance world wide. So Players will be able to have more scope.
I'm afraid we all have a pretty low opinion of the existing d20 Modern rules set, and would probably start over from scratch with something that would end up being more compatible with the Pathfinder rules.
No "strong heroes" for us, thanks.
That said, someone else will probably pull something like this together using the Pathfinder Compatibility License, so you don't need to wait for us.
My impression is that Fantasy is a larger audience than Science Fiction which is a larger audience than Modern.
Okay ...
What about this "True20" thing I have been hearing about?
I'm afraid we all have a pretty low opinion of the existing d20 Modern rules set
I really liked it. For something that wanted to cover as many bases as d20M did (d20 Past, d20 Modern, d20 Future, d20 Cyberspace, d20 Apocalypse, Urban Arcana, all the rest...), a generic class system does make sense.
If you want to have different generic classes, then fine.
Skill Monkey
Warrior
FX User
Or just
Offensive
Defensive
Or completely classless!
I would 2nd useing something liked montes classless CoC d20 system, I liked where that was going better then the "classes" of d20 modern
Why not a dedicated Planet Stories RPG? Take the sword-and-planet themes and create those versions of a jungled Venus and the arid, but habitable deserts of Mars. It could even be mixed in with a tinge of the 30s "Ray Gun" Space Opera stories, like Doc Smith's Lensman series.
A core rule-book, and then campaign setting books for Mars and Venus? I'd certainly buy them!
I really liked it. For something that wanted to cover as many bases as d20M did (d20 Past, d20 Modern, d20 Future, d20 Cyberspace, d20 Apocalypse, Urban Arcana, all the rest...), a generic class system does make sense.
If you want to have different generic classes, then fine.
Skill Monkey
Warrior
FX UserOr just
Offensive
DefensiveOr completely classless!
I like the true20 approach of the three generic classes (Adept, Expert, Warrior) with lots and lots of ways to customize them to different campaigns. Adept might not work for all settings of course (though a hacker in a cyberpunk game could get portrayed as an adept pretty easily) but as a model it's simple to understand and design for.
I'm assuming that's what you meant by your "Skill monkey/Warrior/FX User" combo above right? If so then I agree with you :)
I like the true20 approach of the three generic classes (Adept, Expert, Warrior) with lots and lots of ways to customize them to different campaigns. Adept might not work for all settings of course (though a hacker in a cyberpunk game could get portrayed as an adept pretty easily) but as a model it's simple to understand and design for.
I'm assuming that's what you meant by your "Skill monkey/Warrior/FX User" combo above right? If so then I agree with you :)
Of course, this is an arguement that Paizo doesn't need to create a Science Fiction, Modern, Superhero or Pulp version of Pathifnder.
Because with True20, it has already been done.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
|
I've enjoyed the class system in D20 Modern, and the ruleset overall. Many of the talents were weak however, and I'd like to see those re-done. Finally, I'm not a big fan of the heroic/ordinary distinction between PCs and most NPCs. I'd love to see wealth go away and use $ or credits, or whatever currency though.
At the same time, I'd be fine with an alternate class system for a modern/sci-fi PRPG compatable system also. I'd just want a system that was good.
I've enjoyed the class system in D20 Modern, and the ruleset overall. Many of the talents were weak however, and I'd like to see those re-done. Finally, I'm not a big fan of the heroic/ordinary distinction between PCs and most NPCs. I'd love to see wealth go away and use $ or credits, or whatever currency though.
At the same time, I'd be fine with an alternate class system for a modern/sci-fi PRPG compatable system also. I'd just want a system that was good.
I like the 6 base classes too. The some of the talents are a bit weak, but some are pretty good. It just depends on the class. Also, I think the Fast Hero should have a ranged weapon Talent Tree that gave them a +1 to Attack, +2 to Attack, and then finally +3 to Attack. Maybe give Tough Heros good (or is that medium) Fort and Will saves.
One thing I'd like to see happen is a combination of the Toughness feat with the Improved Damage Threshold feat. Maybe Tough Threshold?
Tough Threshold
You are hard to kill.
Benefit: You gain 3 hit points, and your Massive Damage Threshold improves by 3.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, and its effects stack.
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
|
One thing I'd like to see happen is a combination of the Toughness feat with the Improved Damage Threshold feat. Maybe Tough Threshold?Tough Threshold
You are hard to kill.
Benefit: You gain 3 hit points, and your Massive Damage Threshold improves by 3.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, and its effects stack.
Considering how PRPG has changed the toughness feat, I'd think that a modern version of the rules would keep the feat the same way - 3 hp +1/character level. Adding in an increase to Massive Damage Threshold would make the feat a bit too much.