Has anyone converted the beguiler to PF Beta?

[Cesare]

I have a player who has expressed an interest in this class, but I am running a PF Beta campaign. Is there anything I can do to make the class more on par with everyone else? Also, has anyone done a conversion yet.

[Taliesin Hoyle]

In my opinion, the beguiler was overpowered. The PF base classes are adjusted upward to make them equal in power to the splatbook classes like the beguiler. Don't adjust the class. It is perfectly compatible as it is. To boost the power of the beguiler would make it, again, more attractive than the base classes, which is kind of missing the point of the boost they got.

[DarkWhite]

Cesare wrote:

I have a player who has expressed an interest in this class, but I am running a PF Beta campaign. Is there anything I can do to make the class more on par with everyone else? Also, has anyone done a conversion yet.

Disclaimer: I haven't played a Beguiler, and don't have my books in front of me, so I can't make any accurate assessments regarding balance compared to the core classes.

However, one of Pathfinder RPG's design goals was to lift the core races/classes to compare more favourable with those released in more recent sourcebooks, eg the Beguiler. The assumption here is to make the core races/classes appealing choices compared to possibly power-creeped races/classes.

Having said that, not every race/class from secondary sources are power-creeped, some are actually sub-par. Each needs to be assessed on a case-by-case basis.

Though your player has obviously been attracted to play a Beguiler for one reason or another, be it character concept, specific powers, cool flavour, etc. I'd suggest only applying modifications that have occurred for all classes, eg pairing hit-dice to BAB is probably the only class-specific change I can think of, other changes such as feats every 2 levels instead of 3 apply to all characters regardless of race.

My reasoning is that if the player likes the Beguiler enough to play it, they probably don't need any other incentives or bonuses. If they miss out on some of the shiny new toys added to the core classes, well that's one of the trade-offs playing a non-core class - Beguilers have their own toys already built into the class, and that's a choice the player has already made.

Edit: Ninja'ed - yeah, what Taliesin Hoyle said ;-)

[DarkWhite]

Taliesin Hoyle wrote:

In my opinion, the beguiler was overpowered. The PF base classes are adjusted upward to make them equal in power to the splatbook classes like the beguiler. Don't adjust the class. It is perfectly compatible as it is. To boost the power of the beguiler would make it, again, more attractive than the base classes, which is kind of missing the point of the boost they got.

Yeah, this question gets asked a lot on these boards. I really hope there's a sidebar in the Pathfinder RPG that states this design goal clearly, so players stop trying to boost non-core classes using "conversion" to the Pathfinder RPG as an excuse.

Probably a good reason the final Pathfinder RPG will remain closer to 3.5 than the Beta. The more players perceive a need for "conversion", the more requests like these we'll see.

[Taliesin Hoyle]

Thank you for the backup.

[Montalve]

ok
just for the sake of Answering

I DO BELIEVE the Beguiler is overpowered and disliked it when I saw it...

still I let one of my players do one... why?

one of my moods of "ok I want to pelase everyone" and more importantly, an old friend who I trust a lot dicussed with me that since Pathfinder had leveld the field game, using the Bueguiler considering the new Schools and powers of the Wizard was ok...

what we did... ok let me remeber *opening Character Sheet*

mmm I just Rember not Giving her the Wizard's Magic School... I am pretty sure we gave her another thing but I don't remember... still the Beguiler's spells options is very specialiced and limited out of certain areas... she is sure to get in troubles... right now a Pathfinder Wizard is a lot more powerful if we consider the school domains and the new uses of the familiar. (at least the Wizard doesn't go out of batteries for a while)

and i think we decided to give him a rogue trait at level 3... but I don't have the updated sheet...

[Montalve]

oh I reember I was convinced to give him one school type power... the pew pew attack of first level, kind of shadow attack... but must be made in melee

1d6+1 per level

but that is us.

[Sheng Gradilla]

From the top of my head, it wasn't just the pew pew ability, we also opened the "advanced learning" class feature to all schools. Why? Because the beguiler already has ALL the spells of the schools permitted by advanced learning as-is at the time of publishing. That class feature is some sort of "buy our future splatbooks so you can actually add a spell to your list".

Without that modification to advanced learning, there is nothing to add, plain and simple. The class becomes dull and unflexible, even useless in combat, all you can do is cast a save or suck spell and run away, letting someone else do the beating.

[Xuttah]

Cesare wrote:

I have a player who has expressed an interest in this class, but I am running a PF Beta campaign. Is there anything I can do to make the class more on par with everyone else? Also, has anyone done a conversion yet.

All the beguiler is is a bard or enchanter with sneak attack and trapfinding. Just multiclass 1:3 and you've got most of what a beguiler can do.

[hogarth]

I'm with everyone else -- give the beguiler at-will cantrips and he should be good to go. Maybe you could give him an at-will power (similar to the Illusion school's Blinding Ray, for example), but that's not necessary, IMO.

[Major_Tom]

Change the hit dice, feat every other level, don't change anything else.

We never saw the beguiler as one of the overpowered splat classes, more there for a party with only three characters, to give them a mage who could also fill the rogue slot. Fairly cool, but limited. (Great against big dumb fighters, vampires, not so much).

We've tried a few other classes, even one of the two that everyone agrees was overpowered, the duskblade. Just the changes I listed above. Oh, and he's a half-elf, which says choose your favored class, so he picked duskblade. So he has an extra hp per/level, not a big thing for someone who already got a d10.
So far, the universalist wizard is pretty well outstripping him as a spellcaster, and the barbarian is doing likewise as a fighter. He fits in the middle someplace, which should be his role. FOr the beguiler, I wouldn't give him anything else special, just getting the advanced feat progression to every other level will make him at least a bit stronger than he was in 3.5.

[Montalve]

Major_Tom wrote:

Change the hit dice, feat every other level, don't change anything else.

already considered that all arcane spellcaster are 1d6 (I won't give them more)

and all clases already gain 1 feat in odd levels, but that is by rules, not per clases.

[KnightErrantJR]

I've got to chime in and agree . . . once they get their "at will" cantrips, there really isn't anything else that needs to be done with the class. And yes, their hit dice already matches their BAB, so there isn't any adjustment needed.