The Shadowcaster and shadowkin

[Icthulu]

I am really interested in converting the entire group of the shadow classes from the ToM, plus adding an additional pseudo melee class based on the Japanese ninja that can attack through the enemies shadow, using the pathfinder rule set.

I would like to know a couple things though, if I can ask.

Would anyone be actually interested in this planar archtype besides me?

Would I be railed against for OGL? I am not really sure what the laws entail for ToM creations and alterations. Something I never enjoy dealing with and have to force myself to slave over the copyright regulations.

Though the PrC shadowdancer is months away from unveiling, and it's final form's existence would be extremely helpful to have, I envision the creations fitting nicely with that PrC. Any advice on this?

Of course a hand would be welcome as well just to know if the small changes would just break the class feel.

And No, I have no intention to create a mythos, I never imagined the shadow plane as anything but what the ToM listed, save a more detailed explanation about the method for the birth of shadowkin.

And thanks in advance.

( I have a PDF of the initial changes in typical class format in 3.5 rules for the moment for a Shadowmage (Shadowcaster) and would be happy to send it along to anyone that wants the class with all but spell details explained. )

[Icthulu]

Well,

I made up the prototype PDF of the mage and all the spells, feats, with a lot of copying and pasting. But it's at least a viable alpha before I start asking around for playtesting. 3 more to go...

http://rapidshare.com/files/220972998/Shadowmage.pdf.html

I really am hesitant about rewriting the background for the Shadow plane. It seems like something that should only be performed by paid professionals. Hmmm, ah well. Later.

[Crimson Jester]

actually I would be interested in this. I have been thinking along the lines of having a world with none of the 3.5 core stuff but maybe a lot of the non -core classes and races. I started with the Hexblade but well stalled on it. So please whatever you have.

[Icthulu]

I'm really sorry my brain is failing me, what were you thinking of doing?

[Crimson Jester]

Allowing either the swordsage or swashbuckler and not the monk
Hexblade and not the Paladin
maybe not wizard but shadowcaster

things of that nature...
as well as maybe not dwarves but goliaths
allowing a few other unique races from the splat books but only humans from the core.

just have to update the to PFrpg although I tell you someof them are tough enough.

[Icthulu]

I'm sure many will hopefully do such things. And maybe some of them done well enough will become cannon for Pathfinder. Well that is my hope perhaps.

It's funny how that is. Some of the Sups offer great alternatives that are well balanced, and others... Well they should have the writer run out on a rail because of how many holes they have.

Most of them have such a great flavor and style to them though that they are hard to pass up even though you know there are quite obvious exploits. Probably my two favorite that are usable are the well underpowered Swanmay for the sheer originality, and the slightly overdone scout.

I do find myself inexplicably making these classes if only based on the flavor of the descriptions. Sadly though, as I read over their abilities I see a lot of things that make no sense, are horribly complicated, or just plain overdone and basically want to (And do) start completely anew.

Have to see how they turn out. Have the outlines done for the Shadowcaster PrC Child of the Night and the Master of Shadow plus a different build for a shadow ranger type.

[Crimson Jester]

let me know when they are posted please.

[Icthulu]

No problem. The Shadowmage is linked above a few posts on rapidshare if you want to take a look at it.

[Icthulu]

A complete version of the shadowcaster called the shadowmage in PDF form.

Shadowmage.

Though it probably needs some formatting, there is little I can think of that is missing. Hopefully anyways.

If anyone has any comments at all, I would be grateful to have them. The focus of the build was making the class perform like a PC transitioning into a monster, turning as many of the powers to Su's and Sa's as possible without giving them more benefits than what a sorcerer or a Wizard would get.

They will actually cast less spells per day than other mages, but the fact that a great number of them will be Su's that have very potent benefits I think outweighs the loss of a couple spells per day.

Now onto the shadow sword...

[Nero24200]

I would be interested in seeing somthing like this, though theres a few things to note

1. The Shadowcaster is not OGL, though to my knowledge as long as you're not selling it (or making money from it) you should be fine.

2. The Shadowcaster is considerd pretty underpowered compared to other casters, and PFRPG only widens the gap further.

3. Whilst good I feel, there are quite alot of complicated aspects to the class.

Some of your changes look good, but it still seems lacking in power compared to others...heres what I would do

Change the powers to (Su) right from the get-go. It keeps their use consistant throughout all levels and it's not much more powerful than making them (Sp).

Increase the use of fundementals per day. This is especially importent when you factor than sorcerers will be throwing out energy orbs all day long which will deal far more damage than the shadowcaster's only direct damage fundemental. Possibily allow the fundementals to scale with level as well (such as more damage from Arrow of Dusk at higher levels, a bigger penalty for Relucetent Shadow at higher levels etc).

For Resiliancy, I'd simply offer Cold Resistance and Negative Energy resistance. This also has the added bonus that you could add weaker versions of them at low levels and have them scale higher.

I'd alter the elemental traits given at 20th level. not being able to be raised can be a big factor at high levels (where most monsters are built under the assumption that one or two PC's might not last the fight). I'd possibly lose some traits (like not being able to be raised) and offer the other ones, again, over levels rather than just at once.

It'll still need more features to be more powerful though.

Oh, and I would make the alignment aspect more ambigious. whilst in some settings Shadow power is inheritle evil (such as in FR) in others it could be considered more neutral.

[Icthulu]

Thank you Nero24200,

I took your advice and altered the class to reflect a more appropriate character for this setting.

I think I got the "new power every level" quota, and I think this would work out well. Fundamentals are at will powers, all Rites are Su's, and added a low damage Fundamental along with boosting a couple fundamentals to scale with levels. Still I worry that the shadowmage has too much power since all their spells bypass SR and do not provoke AoO's. Hopefully I'll finish the others soon to try it in real play.

Please feel free to comment anyone. I appreciate any advice.

And I do hope people notice the 2 notes that Entropy is a 1 use Rite. Having that as a 3+ times per day power would just be disturbingly wrong.

Shadowmage

[Icthulu]

Sadly I can not edit previous posts, so I have to attach a new post with an update. The Shadowmage slightly more edited and the new class Dusk Knight based somewhat on the shadowblade from the ToM has been finished to a certain extent. I am sure there are further errors, but I would likely need an outside person to pick them up.

Please comment if you can, I would love to hear about any questions, issues, errors at all. Thanks again in advance.

Dusk Knight

Shadowmage

[Nero24200]

I have to say I'm liking the look of the dusk knight. Seems pretty flexable (escpacially the option to gain either more martial power or rites).

[Icthulu]

Thanks,

I still am uncertain about the bonus abilities through the levels. Outside of taint which I am proud of as it mimics the rangers combat style except as either magic or melee, I feel like the rest are more a mishmash of filler then really tied to the class. Then again, I have been looking at these classes for a long time.

I really wanted to see a strike through shadows character much like the Japanese ninja in the anime that rise up from an enemies shadow and then attack them once in a vital area. The problem for me is that pathfinder is quite generous and I am afraid that I don't have a true sense of what would work best.

The more I think on these two classes, the less I feel a PrC as ToM has, is needed. They seem to be capable as is of being more than maliable enough to cover any kind of flavor a player would want from a shadow tainted character.

Please comment and be harsh. I am more than happy to really consider others views before I give a shot at a game run with them.