Interpretation of Trample- need help please

[Krome]

I am designing a bad guy who I hope will make frequent use of Trample. My problem is, he rides a Bear... so no hoof but a claw.

In Trample it says if the defender is knocked down, the mount gets a free hoof attack.

Since my mount here is a bear, would it get the free attack, and could it then use it's improved grab to start a grapple with no attack of opportunity (effectively stopping any more movement)?

Also, since the bad guy is mounted... if the trample fails, the defender gets to make a Strength Check against the bad guy to knock him prone. Is this second check against the Bad Guy or the mount, since the first check was with he mount?

And now, the kicker! The mount is hasted... does it get an EXTRA claw/hoof attack and improved grab attempt (assuming the first misses)...

[Kevin Mack]

Hmm I would give it the claw attack but not the grapple (Mainly because its more of the claw stamping on him than tacking a swipe) As for haste I'm fairly certain you only ever get an extra attack as part of a full attack.

[Daniel Moyer]

If I remember correctly, Trample is taken by the rider, but the mount is the one that performs the action.

Treants also have Trample, meaning the feat was probably just written with Paladins in mind, but it's not necessary to actually have "hooves".

The second check would be against the mount. I would likely request/propose a house rule that would allow a DC20 (or better) ride check to allow the rider a +2 to the defensive CMB, therefore preventing the mount from going prone on a failure... with you on it!

Personally, My problem with Trample is that it has such a limited scope, especially when talking about Large & Huge creatures. Why can I only Trample one? Especially when 'Charging', such as a Kobold Druid/Wizard riding his 7HD "Enlarged" dire boar. Answer: cuz that's the way it reads... target, not opponents. >.< *grumble*

I long to ride a giant(Huge) swine through humanoids like bowling pins! *evil grin*

[Krome]

Daniel Moyer wrote:

If I remember correctly, Trample is taken by the rider, but the mount is the one that performs the action.

I long to ride a giant(Huge) swine through humanoids like bowling pins! *evil grin*

Yeah that would be fantastic and fit what I really want to do. I WANT to use a Dire Bear as the mount, but just can't figure out how to do that, since the CR is so high. The adventure is only supposed to be for lvl 9-10 (should be 10 when they fight this guy), and if the BBEG has a CR 7 mount! he HAS to be substantially higher!

What I have is a Human Fighter 12 riding a Brown Bear CR 5 (advanced one CR and mostly for the looks and it is different), Feats are:

Human:Improved Initiative
1st level: Two-Weapon Fighting
Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (Warhammer)
Fighter 2: Improved Shield Bash
2nd level: Mounted Combat
Fighter 3: Ride-by Attack
4th level: Weapon Specialization (Warhammer)
Fighter 5: Spirited Charge
6th level: Shield Slam
Fighter 7: Trample
8th level: Greater Weapon Focus (Warhammer)
Fighter 9: Power Attack
10th level: Cleave
Fighter 11: Shield Master
12th level: Vital Strike

In combat he has the bear ingest a potion of haste. With a load his speed should go from 30 feet to 60 feet now.

So mounted he can move before and after his attack, make overruns that cannot be avoided, and if successful (bear has a STR modifier of +8 so I hope so) the bear gets a free claw attack at +4 (for +15 total), and do triple damage on a mounted charge.

Once dismounted he knows it is more dangerous now, so uses a Warhammer (crit x3), Power Attack, Cleave and Vital Strike, but also can use his spiked shield as a weapon and keeps his AC bonus, has no negative modifier for using a shield as an offhand weapon, and gets a free Bull Rush with his shield attack.

His AC is 25 = 10 + (+1 Breastplate (6)) + (Dex (3)) + (+1 Heavy Metal Shield, Spiked) (3)) + (Armor Training (3))

His attack is a +21 = +1 Warhammer, STR +4, BAB 12, Weapon Training +2, Greater Weapon Focus +2 average damage per round, assuming 2 out of 3 hits and a hit with the shield is 36 damage.

His HPs (Constitution Method) are 90 = CON 13 + 66 (6 per level average including bonus)

His only real weakness is his Will save which is common in most Fighters- so kill the casters first, while mounted and mobile. Also, if separated and the bear still lives, the bear is targeted on the Wizard/Sorcerer. If the caster has ABOUT 48 HP, and the bear is full attacking for an average damage about 34 damage per round!, that caster is in trouble fast.

[Krome]

Heck I CAN do it!

I thought the Fighter 12 with a CR Brown Bear was plenty... but looking over the Pathfinder rules for making an encounter I have a LOT of room to play with!

I want a Hard encounter, so I need a CR 12, worth 19,200 XP

The Fighter is equal to a CR 10 worth only 9,600!
The Dire Bear CR 7 would be worth 3,200
which means I can add in 5 Brown Bears of 1,200 each
totaling 18,800

In fact, I could up my Fighter and the Dire Bear...

The Fighter could be Fighter 13, and have TWO Dire Bears! exactly 19,200!

So the fighter fights from one, for mobility and concentrates on say a wizard, uses the other to attack another caster (say a cleric). When one caster goes down, he dismounts, and sets to work on the Fighter, whom he has tried to avoid until now, while setting the free Dire Bear onto the Rogue. When the other Dire Bear finishes its caster it joins the Fighter against the fighter. Then the three (or however many remain) turn upon the rogue!

Should a Dire Bear fall dead, and the Fighter is brought to 30 HP or less, he flees upon the still living Dire Bear!