OoTS #638


Gamer Life General Discussion

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well that was unexpected

"Finger of Failure!"

Dark Archive

Do the rules even allow shapechange to be used like that? I can see DMs screaming a bloody NO. (And yes, I'm aware what Rich thinks about the rules.)

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've always been lenient with my players, especially if they wanted to do something that was cool and outside the rules.

In this case I would have said yes. I mean that was a beautiful use of shapechange, even if the rules or anyone else were to scream NO!

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Just call it flavor texting; the black dragon wasn't killed by the burst effect of having a giant dragon erupt in its tummy. It was killed by a full attack routine by V in dragon form. Once it was dead, the "bursting dramatically from its dead corpse" was just descriptive fluff. Now everyone is satisfied!

I actually saw the final panel before I read the second to the last one, which slightly messed up the magic of the flow, but still it was great stuff. A Dragon's Victory indeed! :)

Dark Archive

Way back in 1ed I had a Magic User who had already cast Shapechange get swallowed whole by a purple worm. I shaped changed into an Iron Golem.

Messy.

I think I won the 'number of OoTS before the dragon kicks it' pool.

Contributor

One of my recent games, the druid was swallowed by a purple worm while she had Circe's "turn into pig" formula in her basket. The purple worm turned into a giant purple pig which she then commanded to cough her back up.

The use by V was perfectly legit in my book.


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm

Spoiler:
Shapechange
Transmutation
Level: Animal 9, Drd 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level (D)

This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type) from Fine to Colossal size. The assumed form cannot have more than your caster level in Hit Dice (to a maximum of 25 HD). Unlike polymorph, this spell allows incorporeal or gaseous forms to be assumed.

You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but you lose your own supernatural abilities. You also gain the type of the new form in place of your own. The new form does not disorient you. Parts of your body or pieces of equipment that are separated from you do not revert to their original forms.

You can become just about anything you are familiar with. You can change form once each round as a free action. The change takes place either immediately before your regular action or immediately after it, but not during the action. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.

Focus
A jade circlet worth no less than 1,500 gp, which you must place on your head when casting the spell. (The focus melds into your new form when you change shape.)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm

Spoiler:
Polymorph
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Willing living creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.

Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further). If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead.

The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities.

Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.

Material Component
An empty cocoon.

Neither claims any restriction on size. So V could very well 'explode' out of the Ancient Black Dragon. At a glance I can't see anything about actions you can take when you've been swallowed. However, all other negative situations you may get into can be overcame by a simple concentration check. Which Epic V probably made with ease.

All in all... this works. By the rules. Which makes it even cooler.

Scarab Sages

But why pink?

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Ubermench wrote:
But why pink?

Pink is my favorite crayon

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

So...umm...Can Epic V go kick Xykon around now?

Dark Archive

Ross Byers wrote:
So...umm...Can Epic V go kick Xykon around now?

Why not join him instead. Androgynous being and skeleton, rulers of the multiverse. BWAHAHAHA...!


joela wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
So...umm...Can Epic V go kick Xykon around now?
Why not join him instead. Androgynous being and skeleton, rulers of the multiverse. BWAHAHAHA...!

Or better yet, replace him. Isn't that what ultimate power is for ;)

Scarab Sages

Ubermench wrote:
But why pink?

Ask Aerosmith.

Dark Archive

lynora wrote:
joela wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
So...umm...Can Epic V go kick Xykon around now?
Why not join him instead. Androgynous being and skeleton, rulers of the multiverse. BWAHAHAHA...!
Or better yet, replace him. Isn't that what ultimate power is for ;)

Have to have someone to blame everything on ;-)


I think it's because of the wording on spells like Righteous Might and Enlarge Person that one might assume one cannot "burst" a creature open like that.

Like many things in the SRD, the working is vague, so it's usually up to the DM to interpret. I think more than anything, Rich is just using something dramatic and interesting, and probably has little regard for what the minutae of the rules has to say.

If you're really concerned about the rules of the OOTS-verse, try explaining the use of the antimagic field to get out of the forcecage. Even my player's agree that isn't really likely.

Liberty's Edge

Crowheart wrote:
I think it's because of the wording on spells like Righteous Might and Enlarge Person that one might assume one cannot "burst" a creature open like that.

But what is a black dragon's Burst DC?


Ubermench wrote:
But why pink?

V's not pink, V's salmon red and it means V's3 times better than all other dragons :P

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Crowheart wrote:

I think it's because of the wording on spells like Righteous Might and Enlarge Person that one might assume one cannot "burst" a creature open like that.

Like many things in the SRD, the working is vague, so it's usually up to the DM to interpret. I think more than anything, Rich is just using something dramatic and interesting, and probably has little regard for what the minutae of the rules has to say.

If you're really concerned about the rules of the OOTS-verse, try explaining the use of the antimagic field to get out of the forcecage. Even my player's agree that isn't really likely.

Odd, that's exactly the sort of thing that AMF seems useful for. It suppresses all magic. You walk up to the forcecage and it melts away from you within the AMF, reappearing after you've left the area (since it's only suppressed, not dispelled). AMF moves with you, so you can walk right through non-instantaneous magical barriers.


Apologies for the tangent:

The reason antimagic field isn't likely to work against a forcecage is because a forcecage is made up of walls of force, which an antimagic field doesn't affect in anyway as per the description of the wall of force spell.

If one wanted to be very technical, one could suppose that even though forcecage says it fuctions similar to wall of force, it isn't the spell per se, and thus could be affected by an antimagic field. Personally, I think thats stretching it a bit, but like I said before, the wording is vague, so I would say it was up to DM interpretation.

Personally, I might not be against such a ruling, since forcecage is such an jerk "gotcha" spell anyway, and could use another counter besides disintigrate. Thank you Pathfinder for allowing a reflex save to this spell now.

Scarab Sages

Pat Payne wrote:
Ubermench wrote:
But why pink?
V's not pink, V's salmon red and it means V's3 times better than all other dragons :P

Name is V, androgynous, Elf, has a human wife and kids he never told anyone about, turns into a pink dragon, V is a closet homosexual.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Crowheart wrote:

Apologies for the tangent:

The reason antimagic field isn't likely to work against a forcecage is because a forcecage is made up of walls of force, which an antimagic field doesn't affect in anyway as per the description of the wall of force spell.

If one wanted to be very technical, one could suppose that even though forcecage says it fuctions similar to wall of force, it isn't the spell per se, and thus could be affected by an antimagic field. Personally, I think thats stretching it a bit, but like I said before, the wording is vague, so I would say it was up to DM interpretation.

Personally, I might not be against such a ruling, since forcecage is such an jerk "gotcha" spell anyway, and could use another counter besides disintigrate. Thank you Pathfinder for allowing a reflex save to this spell now.

I stand corrected - right there in the spell description, one of the last paragraphs:

"Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions." - p. 200 in my PH.

One of the guys in my gaming group is famous for his snark that "you stop reading the spell description once it says the things you want it to say; don't read the rest of it, it might spoil something!"

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