This is regarding the (delicious) paladin design changes, smite evil in particular. So it's +1 per level vs evil, and +1d6 per two levels vs evil outsiders and undead...most undead being evil by default (i can think of less than a handful of exceptions) does this +1d6/2 levels vs Evil Outsiders/Undead damage apply in addition to the +1/level or is it just one, or say +8 or +4d6(minimum 8, which is how i read it). Evil outsiders are always evil...undead are almost always evil...would it make sense for smite evil to possibly do less damage to an evil outsider than just normal evil?
Actually I'm gonna tack this on, another thought - did Jason remove the requirement that the Divine Bond weapon be the deities favored weapon? If so I think it should stay, it makes alot more sense and provides a limitation to what might otherwise be a sickly overpowered ability(monkey grip with a large/huge battleaxe or what have you...x3 crit...) and add flavor where alot has been lost in the transition from 2e to 3.5
This is regarding the (delicious) paladin design changes, smite evil in particular. So it's +1 per level vs evil, and +1d6 per two levels vs evil outsiders and undead...most undead being evil by default (i can think of less than a handful of exceptions) does this +1d6/2 levels vs Evil Outsiders/Undead damage apply in addition to the +1/level or is it just one, or say +8 or +4d6(minimum 8, which is how i read it). Evil outsiders are always evil...undead are almost always evil...would it make sense for smite evil to possibly do less damage to an evil outsider than just normal evil?
This is actually a lot worse if you take in consideration critical hits and feats/abilities that allow a multiplier to the damage (like Spirited Charge, for example).
You can take a look at this thread, where such a problem has already spoken of.I really hope that the final version would take this into consideration, with a solution similar to your proposal...
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I've already decided to make the bonus from dice at least +1/level, at the minimum, so there's no loss when smiting something really evil.
Crits are more problematic, due to the rule that bonus dice are not multiplied (a very good rule in most instances, and not one I want to lift for Sneak Attack, or Aligned weapons, etc).
One way round this, is to change the Smite bonus from being a 'bonus damage dice' situation in the first place.
One could make the argument that, while Smiting, the paladin is filled with divine power. Power which is variable in intensity each time it's called upon.
The paladin thus, is rolling the dice to find the 'power level' of the divine surge, which then is added as a flat bonus, which is eligible for multiplication.
Instead of rolling the dice for a different result on each hit, you may have to change to rolling the dice at the beginning of the attack sequence, and applying the same result (low/medium or high) to all damage rolls for the duration of the Smite (one round at low levels, more at later levels).
You are no longer rolling 'bonus damage dice'. You are gaining 'a Smite bonus to damage', the value of which just happens to have been discovered by rolling some dice.
This doesn't change attacks like Sneak Attack, where the bonus damage is totally situational, and needs to be rolled separately in every case (thus not multipliable).
Smiting actually infuses the paladin with holy power, which is a change to the Paladin himself (therefore is multipliable).
The same procedure was used in the 3.0 version of Bull's Strength. The increased Strength gave you a bonus to hit and damage. The value of that bonus was decided by a die roll, but once decided, it was a flat bonus, that applied to all attacks, and multiplied on a crit.
It's splitting hairs, to be sure, but it's the best way I can see to give the paladin what he desrves, without breaking the established rule on crits.
If this doesn't sit well with you, then at the very least, allowing the paladin to choose between 'dice or flat bonus' once the threat is confirmed, will allow those who hate the swinginess to go for a guaranteed bonus amount.
Yup and there's the other headache...how do these values then factor into crits? If its a minimum value, is it only going to multiple if the damage is less than that value? Or in the event of a crit only that much damage is multiplied....very confusing using two different bonus damage types with the same attack vs the same type of creatures...I just assume for simplicity's sake that none of the smite evil damage ends up critting, with the way it's written and looking at similar abilities (Armor Spiking from Monte Cook's Experimental Might, for example). Would be helpful(but i'm sure me and my DM can solve it) if it was either A) explained how it's supposed to work, or B) standardized, so that the they both determine damage in a similar fashion...
One way round this, is to change the Smite bonus from being a 'bonus damage dice' situation in the first place.
I fully agree with this - make it +2/level. Virtually identical to 1d6 per 2 levels, and so much easier.
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One way round this, is to change the Smite bonus from being a 'bonus damage dice' situation in the first place.I fully agree with this - make it +2/level. Virtually identical to 1d6 per 2 levels, and so much easier.
That's how we've been doing it:
+1 damage / paladin level vs evil
+2 damage / paladin level vs undead and evil outsiders
Robert