I suggest to go str based instead of Dex. Your gain in ac is not worth the weapon finesse feat, imho. Casting a shield spell will bump your ac enough. And you still have mirror image. I'm actually playing a str hexcrafter and I find myself pretty well.
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So if I go with a 25 pt buy, there's no reason why I can't end up with stats of:
Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 18
Wis: 12
Cha: 5This would be as a tiefling. As a dual-talented human, my Cha is a 7. I'm really like tiefling with the Fiendish Sprinter, Prehensile Tail, Scaled Skin (fire), and possibly Maw or Claw alternate racial traits. Ideally I'd like to get Soul Seer for deathwatch at will, but it's not worth giving up the prehensile tail, which would allow me to use metamagic rods with my spell combat.
Eh, Tiefling tail will not let you use a metamagic rod with spellcombat.
All rods are Use-Activated requiring you to manipulate them when invoking their power. Tiefling tails only allow you to hold an item (even with the feat invested) not manipulate.Only having an extra hand or using the prehensile hair hex will let a magus use the rod.
Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. a character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.
Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character's possession (meaning on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item's activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use, activation is not an action at all.
Use activation doesn't mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such as from drinking a potion or swinging a sword.
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There's not really any "ultimate" magus. It all depends what you want out of your character.
Want to have enough AC to be a consistent combatant in combat? Go Dervish Dance.
Want to have consistent damage output? Go Strength magus.
Want to be spell focused? Be a human, pick up Spell Focus and Spell Specialization so your Shocking Grasp can do 3d6 at first level.
Want to have a bag of tricks to provide debuffing and utility? Go Hexcrafter magus.
Want to be martial focused? Go kensai.
You can be a crit fisher with any of these suggestions. The only prerequisite to crit fishing is getting a high crit weapon and keening it one way or another.
Kasatha kensai blade bound magus using multi-weapon fighting...its all the rave lately ;)
Try looking into frostbite/enforcer/rime spell combo. 2 feats with a human and you're debuffing the crap out of them at first level.
Some bullet point.
Kensai is not viable without dervish dance. Avoid it if you wanna go strengh.
Shocking grasp is still your worst spell at level 1 even with spell specialization so it's a bad idea throwing all you first level feats there.
Crit fishing doesn't come up till 5 when you get to add keen to your weampo and your grasp does enaugh damage to be worth it. Till then, just shield up and have a color spray handy.
Dual talented human is really nice if you don't plan any feat intensive chain (aka if you are strengh based).
Mirror image + spell recall is your partner in crime for making your GM cry after you chaincasted it 3 times in a row facetanking the BBEG.
Familiar arcana at 6 with improved familiar at 7 makes for a handy extra hand in handling whands.
What part of the rod is manipulated when using a metamagic rod?
I believe they are concentration items-- standard action but being held would work .
Some bullet point.
Kensai is not viable without dervish dance. Avoid it if you wanna go strengh.
Why? He can get a good ability score distribution. Remember, there's a difference between "viable" and "optimal."
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And why is shocking grasp a horrible first level spell? It practically doubles the damage of a rapier or scimitar wielding magus.
Shocking Grasp is a melee touch attack that allows no saving throw, but you must check against spell resistance. Which means several things, pros and cons:
-It uses your STR, not DEX, on the attack roll. This matters depending on whether you're pumping STR or DEX.
-It's a touch attack, which is always awesome.
-No saving throw. Again awesome.
-Allowing spell resistance checks, which sucks. This is a great low PC-level spell, but it's going to be less effective as you go up.
-It is electricity damage, which is nice because less monsters have electricity resistance/immunity.
I've found Shocking Grasp to be much more useful for a rogue/mage type, where you can add sneak attack onto an intensified Shocking Grasp. >:)
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...So if I go with a 25 pt buy, there's no reason why I can't end up with stats of:
Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 18
Wis: 12
Cha: 5This would be as a tiefling. As a dual-talented human, my Cha is a 7. I'm really like tiefling with the Fiendish Sprinter, Prehensile Tail, Scaled Skin (fire), and possibly Maw or Claw alternate racial traits. Ideally I'd like to get Soul Seer for deathwatch at will, but it's not worth giving up the prehensile tail, which would allow me to use metamagic rods with my spell combat.
Eh, Tiefling tail will not let you use a metamagic rod with spellcombat.
All rods are Use-Activated requiring you to manipulate them when invoking their power. Tiefling tails only allow you to hold an item (even with the feat invested) not manipulate.Only having an extra hand or using the prehensile hair hex will let a magus use the rod.
Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. a character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.
Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character's possession (meaning on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the
Again, nope. Spell combat is a full round action requiring you to have a weapon in 1 hand and a free hand for the duration of the round. As soon as you grab that rod you have violated the condition making spell combat stop working.
@Mellerik, It doesn't matter, the rod is flagged as use activated so you are doing something with it other then just holding it. Since the tail can only hold (can't even point it at something) it is not fulfilling the requirements for the type, use activated.
1) If the senario only goes to lvl 8 - go str!
Dex needs dervish dance, that would be 1/4 of the senario without a working optimal.
2) Low level spell casting - here spell recall really shines. - another reason to go str based.
3) Spells.
Infernal healing. Shield. The first two levels this will keep you alive maybe a color spray.
You don't have the spellslots to do much damage with spells before you get spell recall.
4) Pearls of power - aren't cheap - at low level....
For a Dex build, I recommend going Elf; pick up Fleet of Foot, and Improved Initiative, and get ready for some ridiculousness. Elves are great for DEX magi for the same reasons they are great for wizards. Plus you can max your initiative and wreck your DMs encounters before he gets a chance to say otherwise.
If going Human, I would actually recommend a STR build.
Thing about the DEX build, if doing anything other than a CRB human, you are going to be suboptimal because you have to waste that feat on Weapon Finesse when you should be picking up Heighten Spell so you get access to Preferred Spell and Intensified Spell later on.
Will you be getting traits? If not, you must take additional traits to grab Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp). Paragon of Speed/Reactionary/Warrior of Old/Elven Reflexes should be your other choice imo.
First party books include Ultimate Campaign I do believe, unless your DM has something against it, and he should since you can pick up the Dimensional Agility, Assault, and Dervish chain as soon as 10th level if your DM is willing to put up with retraining. It uses your swift action, and a 4th level spell slot, but being able to Spell Combat and take a full round on the first turn is pretty damn important.
You also want to make sure you have the setup for Spell Perfection by 15th level should the game get that far, since that feat is boss for someone that specialized like you do. It let's you burn any level spell slot for a Quickened Intensified Shocking Grasp, and you don't have to prepare it thanks to Preferred Spell. Or, an Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp, you know, for your regular spell during Spell Combat.
At later levels, when you get enough bonuses from Arcane Pool to want to use abilities other than keen, it is a good idea to take Improved Critical, mostly because at earlier levels you get no use from the feat and at later levels it's good to give yourself more options. It can wait until 17th-ish level tbh.
Spell Focus(Evocation) and Spell Specialization(Shocking Grasp) are also really good feats to pick up before 8th level, after that they really don't benefit you much aside from overcoming SR later on, but at earlier levels they let you nova like no other.
As for Magus Arcana, picking up Arcane Accuracy, a Familiar for initiative, and Spell Blending for utility spell access is pretty much all you need to care about.
Weapon Focus is your friend, don't let anyone tell you different, as is Weapon Specialization. Power Attack is okay, but it requires a 13 STR which is suicide in a point buy when making a DEX build. If you use a kukri you can take Piranha Strike instead and save yourself some points on the point buy, albeit for a lower damage die.
Combat Casting is a really good feat at the early levels, and really mediocre at later levels. If you wanna take it, then retrain it at lvl 10 for Dimensional Agility, then take Dimensional Assault and Dimensional Dervish both at lvl 11 I don't think anyone would tell you that you're playing wrong.
So let's look at a human build:
1) Combat Casting, Weapon Finesse
3) Improved Initiative
5) Preferred Spell, Heighten Spell
7) Intensified Spell
9) Power Attack/Weapon Focus/Extra Arcana/Whatever
10) retrain Combat Casting to Dimensional Agility
11) Dimensional Dervish, Dimensional Assault
13) Quicken Spell
15) Spell Perfection
17) More Combat feats, to complement what you got at lvl 9
19) Improved Critical
With the right spell choices you pretty much have yourself a do it all character, except healing. There's a wand for that, or another character.
Myself, I would skip Finesse and not bother with the DEX build so I could take more Combat feats that I need, starting with Improved Initiative at lvl 1, and being able to take Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Greater Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization.
The Scimitar is your friend, though it's stats are basically the same as the rapier if you wanna do the Finesse thing.
EDIT: Honorable mentions go to Elemental Spell should your DM throw something at you resistant to electricity, and remember that Preferred Spell can be taken more than once on something like Vampiric Touch to handle the same kind of situation.
And why is shocking grasp a horrible first level spell? It practically doubles the damage of a rapier or scimitar wielding magus.
If you are str based at first level your scimitar is doing at least 1d6+5 without PA so average 8 damage. You need at very least 2d6 to be "doubling" your damage. Compare with spells like shield that increse your lasting power by about 40% or color spray that can win an encounter just by himself with a bit of luck, you can clearly see that SG doesn't give much for that spell slot.
Anyway if you wanna maximize the shit outs of your SG, get a single level dip into crossblooded sorcer for +20 damage (OFC after covering your magus bases. either at level 9 if you get spell spec or at level 12 if you did not)
And why is shocking grasp a horrible first level spell? It practically doubles the damage of a rapier or scimitar wielding magus.If you are str based at first level your scimitar is doing at least 1d6+5 without PA so average 8 damage. You need at very least 2d6 to be "doubling" your damage. Compare with spells like shield that increse your lasting power by about 40% or color spray that can win an encounter just by himself with a bit of luck, you can clearly see that SG doesn't give much for that spell slot.
Anyway if you wanna maximize the s$~# outs of your SG, get a single level dip into crossblooded sorcer for +20 damage (OFC after covering your magus bases. either at level 9 if you get spell spec or at level 12 if you did not)
With Spell Specialization at 1st level being a human you can rock 3d6 shocking grasps. If you take the trait that boosts the CL of a single spell by 1 you can rock 4d6 shocking grasps at 1st level.
By 3rd level you can take Intensified Spell, and at 5th Varisian Tattoo maxing out those Grasps by 6th level, for a second level slot.
Master_marshmallow, a lot of good advice there. However, the game is only planned to go up to level 8. Now there's nothing saying we won't go beyond that once we finish Dragon's Demand, but it's not planned at this time.
If that's the case, I fully recommend the Spell Focus and Specialization feats to max out your Shocking Grasp's damage, and recommend it early.
Intensified Spell becomes useful at lvl 5, and you can probably ditch Combat Casting all together for something more useful.
Again, nope. Spell combat is a full round action requiring you to have a weapon in 1 hand and a free hand for the duration of the round. As soon as you grab that rod you have violated the condition making spell combat stop working.
@Mellerik, It doesn't matter, the rod is flagged as use activated so you are doing something with it other then just holding it. Since the tail can only hold (can't even point it at something) it is not fulfilling the requirements for the type, use activated.
you are incorrect, sir. you can in fact quick draw a rod of quickening(free action), use it to cast a quickened spell(swift action), then drop the wand(free action) before ever declaring a full-round action for spell combat...this is entirely legal....granted, this is not what the OP wishes to do, but your information was incorrect for what you were arguing. the only reason he cant do what he was saying is because he would have to draw and drop the wand in the middle of spell combat, which is still legal since both would be free actions and do not interfere with a full-round action, however it does violate the having a free hand the entire time part of spell combat because you have already started the action before dropping the rod.
as for use activated, a rod CAN be held in a tail and still activated because use activated items DO NOT HAVE TO BE HELD AT ALL. you can be wearing a quick runners shirt which is a use activated item (not considered to be held) and activate it while doing whatever you want with your hands. so long as a use activated item is not stored away, it can be activated.
nowhere in the discription of use activated items does it state that it must be manipulated. it only states it needs to be used. when casting a spell with a metamagic rod, the only thing you have to do with it is cast the spell (which has nothing to do with the rod) while holding the rod....just because the tail, and not the hand, is holding it means nothing. its still being held...which qualifies as the use for its use activation.
Would you recommend going human in this case and taking Magical Lineage (shocking grasp) as a trait and Spell Focus and Spell Specialization at level 1? Then at 3 I can take Intensify Spell so that at level 4 I'm already seeing the benfits of it? I'm almost certainly going rapier/scimitar with a high Str build, since I won't have the feat available to take Weapobn Finesse. A few questions:
1. Do you think 18 Int is a must at level 1, or can I make do with 16?
2. Any recommendations for a 2nd trait if Magical Lineage (shicking grasp) is my other trait?
3. Anything I'm not thinking of?
4. What's in my pocket?
1) 16 Int is just fine, but having it higher is very beneficial if you want to focus on arcana that use arcane pool. For example, it buffs Arcane Accuracy, which is very fantastic. Having another +1 Intelligence also essentially gives you another spell slot with spell recall. However, all of these benefits are for later levels.
2) I'm always partial to reactionary. Having more initiative is always a good thing, especially considering you're a mage.
3) Have you considered the bladebounded magus? It basically gives you a free magic weapon that lets you do crazy stuff at the cost of arcane points and a magus arcana. That's essentially wealth that can be spent elsewhere to really optimize your magus.
4) Depending on where you are now, you likely have your wallet and smartphone in your pockets. If you're at home, then likely either one or neither of them are in your pockets.
To clarify my previous post, I meant that a Strength magus is more optimal if you have a good ability score distribution. If you rolled two or three high stats, then you can spread them across Strength, Intelligence, and Dexterity in that order. Otherwise, Dervish Dance is better.
Dervish Dance is a 2 feat tax that basically gives you 2-3 AC for those feats by giving you a higher Dex than if you went Str based. I'd prefer to stay away with it. I would prefer vanilla magus since it will be my first time playing one and I don't want any more complications.
The vanilla magus is fine, and if you are doing stat rolls you will probably end up okay in the end.
I would definitely recommend human, and take Magical Lineage, and Reactionary. Both are very simple, but effective traits.
The thing to note about dumping all your feats early into Spell Focus and Specialization is that 1) it will prompt you to cast in combat more often requiring concentration checks; 2) it will force you to prepare more Shocking Grasp spells than anything else; and 3) it uses up your feat resources very early that could be spent on something else.
Spell Focus and Combat casting are fine choices for lvl 1. Spell Specialization at 3rd, and Intensified Spell along with whatever else you wanna take at 5th.
There are so many solid options for feats it really depends on what you want. You could take extra magus arcana and get a familiar by then, for even more initiative. You could take Improved Initiative. You could take Weapon Focus, you could take Power Attack. You could take Extra Arcane Pool. It really depends on what you find to be most important by the time you hit that level.
If you are actually playing through the first few levels, I would actually recommend Wayang Spell Hunter in place of Magical Lineage (it does the same thing) and Arcane Temper because it also boosts your concentration checks by 1, which is very valuable at earlier levels when you need to make a DC 16 check to cast defensively.
The higher INT bonus will help with those concentration checks and Arcane Pool, but unless you can get it above a 20 it won't give you any extra spells, so leaving it at 16 should be sufficient at lower levels. Of course, get it as high as possible, but if you end up doing the point buy, that would be something to consider. Later on, when you get your headband I would try and make sure its associated skills are ones that you will want maxed, but aren't necessarily so important that you would need to put ranks into them prior to getting your headband. Fly readily comes to mind as the perfect skill to have associated with your headband since you don't get the spell until lvl 7 anyway.
At those later levels in the campaign, you may actually still want to pick up Heighten and Preferred Spell so you can drop your shocking grasp spontaneously using any of your spell slots, then use Spell Recall to get back the spell slot and it essentially turns your Arcane Pool into 10d6 damage bursts if you are using lvl 1 slots, and your lvl 1 slots can be used to prepare spells you actually need like shield and/or magic missle, or even magic weapon to allow you to get a keen weapon right from level 1.
I would say for early level play, your tactics really make or break your character. Remember that you can take a 5 foot step at any point during spell combat, so if you are out of range of attack, and can 5 foot step into range, remember that you can initiate spell combat, cast your spell, then step in and deliver it and avoid having to even make that concentration check. Also remember against mooks, you can take the penalty equal to your INT and swift action Arcane Accuracy to net you a bonus on concentration checks equal to your INT modifer (essentially letting you add it twice to the roll) at no attack penalty. Assuming a +3 INT modifier that's a +14 on concentration checks, which means and at level 3 you are guaranteed to succeed on concentration checks provided you don't roll a 1. It should also be noted that Fox's Cunning becomes an actual relevant buff since it can boost that check to the point where you can pass you concentration check and still net a positive on your attack modifier from Arcane Accuracy. Under Fox's Cunning you get yourself a +13 without even taking the penalty on the roll at all, meaning you can get your +15 to pass the check and still net +3 to hit from Arcane Accuracy.
Swift Actions matter, and if you don't like burning all those spell slots that you don't really have in excess, then Arcane Strike makes a solid choice for an extra feat or one to take in place of Spell Focus/ Specialization if you find yourself low on resources but still want damage.
EDIT: For a 25 point buy, I suggest going STR 16 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 17 WIS 10 CHA 8.
You could swap INT with STR depending on what you find important, and you could drop CHA to 7 for a 12 WIS or a 15 in either CON or DEX, but most people aren't fans of total stat dumping so I didn't, especially since Intimidate is a class skill for you and you don't seem to have the resources for Bruising Intellect.
In any case, good luck with your game, I hope this character is fun for you. Magi are my favorite class and they are really versatile in what they could do, but when they specialize they specialize hard.
Some really helpful stuff in here. I'm planning on going Samsaran and was wondering what you guys thought some beneficial spells were for a magus to get that he normally wouldn't have access to?
Define "Normally wouldn't have access to." If you mean picking up Bard spells, go for the Heroism line, its possible to just get the healing spells and use Spell Blending later to get the wizard utility spells, and you can literally do all 4 jobs (monkey; healing; arcane caster; DPR) in a party.
You could use the Summoner list to get Haste early, and you could also use the Wizard list to get all those utility spells like Knock and Rope Trick.
You could do something really unique and go hexcrafter and pick up a bunch of actual witch spells, that might be cool.
As long as neither spell is over 6th level on the witch list then yes.
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@Bigdaddyjug: There are some things I strongly advise if you're going to be level 8 and not go with Archetypes. The first is to dip one level into Evocation specialist, Admixture subschool. This will let you channel the energy damage from your spell into other energy types. This is vital to doing consistent Arcane damage. You get 3+Int uses per day, so it's a great trade off. This also nets you Alertness and +4 Init. As long as you memorize wizard spells that are also on the Magus list you can use them as part of Spell Combat. Magical Knack will offset the loss in CL.
Wand Wielder, because you don't want to memorize True Strike. Ever. Or Shield. Or... Bonus, they don't have to be your class spells to use with Spell Combat. Lead Blades anyone?
Eschew Strength for Dexterity. Never let them tell you differently. Stick with Light Weapons and Piranha Strike to keep your bonus damage up. Adding +12-16 damage to each spell is like rolling 4d6 extra.
If you grab Combat Reflexes, then look at Spellblending to pick up a touch spell with multiple charges like Frigid Touch, but always wait until it's a level behind. Why pay full price when you can get it for half?
Get the feat Spell Penetration, a Rod of Spell Piercing, the Metamagic Feat Spell Piercing, or a Wand of Sure Casting. I'd say grab the wand.
Spell Specialization and Intensify Spell will allow you to do 10d6 Shocking Grasps at level 8. You only get 5 Feats and 2 Arcana by then, so it's expensive at 3 feats.
As for traits: Pragmatic Activator lets you use your Int for UMD which synergizes well with Wand Wielder. Bladed Magic grants you double the duration on your Arcane Pool weapon buff. 10 rounds is not always enough time to finish a fight, requiring Arcane Pool points late in the battle to maintain DPR.
Concentrate and Wand Wielder are probably my favorite low level Arcana. Both let you save resources for more important things.
An optimal magus is both dangerous with the blade and can deliver novas.
Arcane Accuracy and Spell Shield are my favorite low-level arcana. Arcane Accuracy is not only handy for attacking high armored foes and shooting bows, but also it essentially doubles as a concentration check bonus. Spell combat allows you to take additional attack penalties to buff your concentration check, but most of the time, you can't use this because it will cripple your chance of attacking. Arcane Accuracy allows you to offset the penalties. It makes me wonder why anyone would ever take Combat Casting or Concentration when you can simply take Arcane Accuracy, which can do the same in a pinch and is much more versatile. Not that I found concentration checks that much of an issue -- if you play smart, you rarely need them.
@Bigdaddyjug: There are some things I strongly advise if you're going to be level 8 and not go with Archetypes. The first is to dip one level into Evocation specialist, Admixture subschool. This will let you channel the energy damage from your spell into other energy types. This is vital to doing consistent Arcane damage. You get 3+Int uses per day, so it's a great trade off. This also nets you Alertness and +4 Init. As long as you memorize wizard spells that are also on the Magus list you can use them as part of Spell Combat. Magical Knack will offset the loss in CL.
Wand Wielder, because you don't want to memorize True Strike. Ever. Or Shield. Or... Bonus, they don't have to be your class spells to use with Spell Combat. Lead Blades anyone?
Eschew Strength for Dexterity. Never let them tell you differently. Stick with Light Weapons and Piranha Strike to keep your bonus damage up. Adding +12-16 damage to each spell is like rolling 4d6 extra.
If you grab Combat Reflexes, then look at Spellblending to pick up a touch spell with multiple charges like Frigid Touch, but always wait until it's a level behind. Why pay full price when you can get it for half?
Get the feat Spell Penetration, a Rod of Spell Piercing, the Metamagic Feat Spell Piercing, or a Wand of Sure Casting. I'd say grab the wand.
Spell Specialization and Intensify Spell will allow you to do 10d6 Shocking Grasps at level 8. You only get 5 Feats and 2 Arcana by then, so it's expensive at 3 feats.
As for traits: Pragmatic Activator lets you use your Int for UMD which synergizes well with Wand Wielder. Bladed Magic grants you double the duration on your Arcane Pool weapon buff. 10 rounds is not always enough time to finish a fight, requiring Arcane Pool points late in the battle to maintain DPR.
Concentrate and Wand Wielder are probably my favorite low level Arcana. Both let you save resources for more important things.
So you are suggesting a kukri then? If he is going DEX he needs to get DEX to damage (Agile) which per WBL shouldn't be available until lvl 6. Are you saying he should tank his damage and rely on also tanking his attack bonus to use piranha strike with a suboptimal weapon for the majority of this character's career? If going the DEX route, there really is no other option than Dervish Dance, which is a feat tax, and it would require Power Attack instead of Piranha Strike. It also doesn't happen until 3rd level.
Again, low level game means low wealth, are you really going to have the money to spend on a bunch of wands to do a bunch of really neat tricks with wand wielder when you could be upgrading your armor, protective items, or stat boosting items?
Combat Casting is the most important 1st level feat to pick up until your INT and CL get high enough to where you no longer need it. You need +15 total, so keep that in mind.
Speaking as someone who played two magi, I never understand why many say Combat Casting is a must-have 1st level feat. If you play smart, you don't need it. If you're in a bad situation, you can spell combat and forgo your to-hit to cast vanish defensively and escape. Offensively, you won't need it because you have very few spells and most things will die instantly to a Spell Specialized shocking grasp. Finally, Combat Casting is useless at later levels. I would not consider it a good choice for a build meant to be "optimized."
It's only marginally useful as a filler feat which will be retrained out later for something with prerequisites.
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Dervish dance was not always around. Sure, you lose SOME damage, but not too much. It is highly overrated (AKA not necessary, but good). Magus' don't rely on damage alone mind you. They are not, and definitely should not be one trick ponies. There are many other viable things to do other than do raw damage. Dervish dance doesn't come until level 3, and by level 7 you have your agile weapon. 4 levels of "Oh no, no dex to damage" won't kill you.
Combat casting is only good for the start. My current Kensai, level 8, has +16 to his concentration checks from intelligence and caster level alone. He'd need to roll a 4 or lower to fail to cast level 3 spells.
First of all, this has been an awesome thread to read and I hope people keep the suggestions coming. I've found this thread VERY useful in helping me hash out the Magus build I've been considering for PFS.
Bigdaddyjug, I'm currently running Dragon's Demand for a group and there are a few things I'd like to share. First off, don't get caught up on the level 7 thing - it will likely be level 6. It's possible for a group of 4 characters to get to level 7 just before the final battle of the module IF they do every single sidequest and kill all the enemies. The latter isn't hard, but the final sidequest having to do with the town is time consuming. How time consuming is going to depend on the GM. I've allowed mass checks in my game. Others are going to want individual checks with lots of roleplaying.
If you have a party of 5, then level 7 becomes very iffy.
Point being, it would probably be more practical to plan your build from levels 1 to 6 and consider level 7 to be a bonus.
Good luck! It's a fun module. Tell Nighttail I said hi. ^^
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Again, nope. Spell combat is a full round action requiring you to have a weapon in 1 hand and a free hand for the duration of the round. As soon as you grab that rod you have violated the condition making spell combat stop working.
@Mellerik, It doesn't matter, the rod is flagged as use activated so you are doing something with it other then just holding it. Since the tail can only hold (can't even point it at something) it is not fulfilling the requirements for the type, use activated.
you are incorrect, sir. you can in fact quick draw a rod of quickening(free action), use it to cast a quickened spell(swift action), then drop the wand(free action) before ever declaring a full-round action for spell combat...this is entirely legal....granted, this is not what the OP wishes to do, but your information was incorrect for what you were arguing. the only reason he cant do what he was saying is because he would have to draw and drop the wand in the middle of spell combat, which is still legal since both would be free actions and do not interfere with a full-round action, however it does violate the having a free hand the entire time part of spell combat because you have already started the action before dropping the rod.
as for use activated, a rod CAN be held in a tail and still activated because use activated items DO NOT HAVE TO BE HELD AT ALL. you can be wearing a quick runners shirt which is a use activated item (not considered to be held) and activate it while doing whatever you want with your hands. so long as a use activated item is not stored away, it can be activated.
nowhere in the discription of use activated items does it state that it must be manipulated. it only states it needs to be used. when casting a spell with a metamagic rod, the only thing you have to do with it is cast the spell (which has nothing to do with the rod) while holding the rod....just because the tail, and not the hand, is holding it means nothing. its still being held...which...
No sir, you are incorrect, please look again at the rules that were quoted. Here I'll quote the relevant parts:
To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty).
Spell combat is a full round action, it starts the instant your turn starts and lasts until your turn ends, there is NO before you start or after you finish . It takes all your concentration for the entirety of your turn so you don't have any time to grab that rod before your turn starts.
The real issue isn't the action required to do it but the fact that you need 1 hand free for the entire round, the instant you put that rod in your hand you are no longer legally able to perform spellcombat that round.This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. a character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.
Use activated items have to be USED, not held with examples of how you use them.
Your quick runners shirt is part of the clothing exception built into the rules. Clothing options are specifically referred to as something you wear and either function continuously or have specific activation rules that overrule the general rule on use activated. Rods do not have this exception in their description.
Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character's possession (meaning on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.
Speaking as someone who played two magi, I never understand why many say Combat Casting is a must-have 1st level feat. If you play smart, you don't need it. If you're in a bad situation, you can spell combat and forgo your to-hit to cast vanish defensively and escape. Offensively, you won't need it because you have very few spells and most things will die instantly to a Spell Specialized shocking grasp. Finally, Combat Casting is useless at later levels. I would not consider it a good choice for a build meant to be "optimized."
It's only marginally useful as a filler feat which will be retrained out later for something with prerequisites.
This.
For a low level game Combat Casting is absolutely an optimal choice. What are you even talking about? Without it you will be failing your concentration checks to cast defensively at least 25% more often which results in wasted spells and wasted resources.Sure at higher levels it doesn't matter, but he's only expecting to get to lvl 6... He said that already.
Also even giving up your to-hit still does not guarantee success on a concentration check. I actually was wrong earlier, the DC is 17, which is a huge number to beat when you only start out with a +4 to concentration checks. A 35% success rate on what he wants to do with his character is pretty much the opposite of optimized, I would say.
4th level is where this build will really start to shine, that's when spell recall happens. It's also when you get access to 2nd level spells. At 5th level I would take both Heighten Spell and Preferred Spell. And tbh I would keep combat casting all the way up through about 8th level because I would rather never have to worry about concentration checks ever again than only have a 1 in 7 chance of succeeding because I wanted to take extra combat feats that end up making me worse anyway.
I don't understand this "If you play smart" line of yours. Tactically, sure, if he starts his round 5 feet away he can cast, then 5 foot step into combat, but that makes a lot of assumptions that he really should not make.
Even to cast a cantrip defensively he needs a 15. +7 to his check from tanking his attack bonus at first level leaves him with a whopping -2 total attack bonus. How is that optimized?
Speaking as someone who played two magi, I never understand why many say Combat Casting is a must-have 1st level feat. If you play smart, you don't need it. If you're in a bad situation, you can spell combat and forgo your to-hit to cast vanish defensively and escape. Offensively, you won't need it because you have very few spells and most things will die instantly to a Spell Specialized shocking grasp. Finally, Combat Casting is useless at later levels. I would not consider it a good choice for a build meant to be "optimized."It's only marginally useful as a filler feat which will be retrained out later for something with prerequisites.This.
For a low level game Combat Casting is absolutely an optimal choice. What are you even talking about? Without it you will be failing your concentration checks to cast defensively at least 25% more often which results in wasted spells and wasted resources.Sure at higher levels it doesn't matter, but he's only expecting to get to lvl 6... He said that already.
Also even giving up your to-hit still does not guarantee success on a concentration check. I actually was wrong earlier, the DC is 17, which is a huge number to beat when you only start out with a +4 to concentration checks. A 35% success rate on what he wants to do with his character is pretty much the opposite of optimized, I would say.
4th level is where this build will really start to shine, that's when spell recall happens. It's also when you get access to 2nd level spells. At 5th level I would take both Heighten Spell and Preferred Spell. And tbh I would keep combat casting all the way up through about 8th level because I would rather never have to worry about concentration checks ever again than only have a 1 in 7 chance of succeeding because I wanted to take extra combat feats that end up making me worse anyway.
I don't understand this "If you play smart" line of yours. Tactically, sure, if he starts his round 5 feet away he can cast, then 5...
You're making the assumption he must always spell combat to cast a spell. I'm rather puzzled why you're using ZanThrax to support Combat Casting as "the most important 1st level feat to pick up" when he said it's only a feat with limited usefulness if there's no better options available.
However, there's better options. The OP wants to be an optimal nova magus. Spell Focus + Spell Specialization is my recommended way to do that. A nova magus usually plays like a skirmisher. Most of the time, he shouldn't be casting into melee. He should be casting burning hands or casting shocking grasp and running up to someone to obliterate them. It'll get better when he has more spell slots to vanish, get into position, and then spell combat + spellstrike someone to death without any risk of attacks of opportunity. If concentration checks are a big issue, he can take the Quantium University Graduate trait to get a +2 without wasting a feat.
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Speaking as someone who played two magi, I never understand why many say Combat Casting is a must-have 1st level feat. If you play smart, you don't need it. If you're in a bad situation, you can spell combat and forgo your to-hit to cast vanish defensively and escape. Offensively, you won't need it because you have very few spells and most things will die instantly to a Spell Specialized shocking grasp. Finally, Combat Casting is useless at later levels. I would not consider it a good choice for a build meant to be "optimized."It's only marginally useful as a filler feat which will be retrained out later for something with prerequisites.This.
For a low level game Combat Casting is absolutely an optimal choice. What are you even talking about? Without it you will be failing your concentration checks to cast defensively at least 25% more often which results in wasted spells and wasted resources.Sure at higher levels it doesn't matter, but he's only expecting to get to lvl 6... He said that already.
Also even giving up your to-hit still does not guarantee success on a concentration check. I actually was wrong earlier, the DC is 17, which is a huge number to beat when you only start out with a +4 to concentration checks. A 35% success rate on what he wants to do with his character is pretty much the opposite of optimized, I would say.
4th level is where this build will really start to shine, that's when spell recall happens. It's also when you get access to 2nd level spells. At 5th level I would take both Heighten Spell and Preferred Spell. And tbh I would keep combat casting all the way up through about 8th level because I would rather never have to worry about concentration checks ever again than only have a 1 in 7 chance of succeeding because I wanted to take extra combat feats that end up making me worse anyway.
I don't understand this "If you play smart" line of yours. Tactically, sure, if he starts his round 5 feet away he can cast, then 5...
Combat casting stops being a useful feat after 2nd level with a slight modicum of tactics. Using a 1hd reach weapon completely eliminates the need for making that check.
For those who want stay in melee you'll just need to pay more attention to your 5ft steps (remember you can take that step before, during or after you start winging your weapon). Usually you'll cast from 10ft away and 5ft step in and swing. The following round you will swing the weapon, 5ft away and then cast preventing you from ever needing to make a concentration check.Later on you'll grab the lunge feat and do all your attacks from 10 feet away.
Combat casting is a wasted feat.
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@Bigdaddyjug: It's a fair call on not being sure you'll even get the full 8 levels. An alternative way to shift your electricity damage around is the Black Blade archetype. It lets you burn precious, precious Arcane Pool. Fortunately you have a larger (distributed) pool of points. The Metamagic Rod for Elemental Spell can help you 3/day which might be enough. Also, I'm not suggesting you focus on your weapon over your spells as much as I urge you not to forget it because of them. With Spell Strike you want to deliver as many touch attacks with your weapon as you can to supplement that damage and provide increased threat range so your novas can go supernova.
If you drop Arcane Accuracy then Pool Strike can provide some DPR increase at the cost of Arcane Pool points, and if the game allows it Spell-scars are worthy of consideration. You can get a Familiar, gaining Alertness and +4 init, then by 7 you can upgrade to a familiar that uses wands, too. I like this option because it gives you two feats for one. Improved Initiative and Alertness. =D
@master_marshmallow: Yes, I am suggesting Kukri. Agile should be available by 4th with 2k leftover according to the Wealth by Level Chart. Section 8, Get Equipped.
At level 5 the Magus can use Arcane Pool to add Keen. The accuracy hit on Piranha Strike is a fair call. Having a sub-par BAB is only somewhat offset by a good stat, but between Arcane Pool bonuses, True Strike wands, gear, and a good Dexterity, I think the -1(-2 by 6) can be overcome for the +2(+4) dmg.
As for upgrading armor, etc... Armor Spell + Shield spell on wands = 1500gp. Net gain = 8 AC.
Light Armor +1 (Chain shirt?) = 1400 gp. Net Gain = 5 AC.
Light Armor +4 (Chain Shirt?) = 16400 gp. Net gain = 8 AC.
I can buy a lot of wands before getting to 16k and an equivalent armor class...If I can craft them or someone else can it's even better for a low level game.
If going the DEX route, there really is no other option than Dervish Dance, which is a feat tax, and it would require Power Attack instead of Piranha Strike. It also doesn't happen until 3rd level
Feats are more precious than gold. By going Strength, he splits attributes further, reducing accuracy, armor class, and damage. Scimitar requires three feats and a split attribute (Str 13) to do the same damage as an Agile Kukri with only two feats. When there are only four feats to work with, I feel that matters. Strength based has a lot more merit for the long run because your armor eventually restricts your Dexterity.
As for combat casting and "a bunch of wands to do a bunch of really neat tricks"...
Arcane Accuracy + True Strike Wand + Intensified Shocking Grasp = Not getting interrupted. No need to pick up Combat Casting. You do more with less. Yes, you have to set it up the turn before. Even when you have 10 pearls +1 for an extra 10 shocking grasps, you're not going to be using them on every action, even less so at early levels when you get like 3. The wands allow you to optimize your action economy for non-scaling or poorly scaling effects like Shield, Armor, True Strike, Grease, or whatever. I suggest only buying a few wands with a wide array of uses. After True Strike and Shield, get whatever you see yourself wanting to use but not memorizing. So you see...there are a few ways to skin this cat.
*I have to revise my opinion on Concentrate. I somehow missed the 1/day qualifier at the very end. =P What a terrible Arcana.
Combat casting stops being a useful feat after 2nd level with a slight modicum of tactics.Right, after second level, but it is absolutely necessary at first, and I would say even after that.
Using a 1hd reach weapon completely eliminates the need for making that check.
No such weapon exists other than the whip and this weapon with no threat range at all.
For those who want stay in melee you'll just need to pay more attention to your 5ft steps (remember you can take that step before, during or after you start winging your weapon). Usually you'll cast from 10ft away and 5ft step in and swing.I already said this, did you even read what I posted? It's not like he has infinite 5 ft steps, what happens on the second turn? Is everything supposed to die on the first turn before he 5 ft steps in?
The following round you will swing the weapon, 5ft away and then cast preventing you from ever needing to make a concentration check.
Later on you'll grab the lunge feat and do all your attacks from 10 feet away.
Combat casting is a wasted feat.
Oh that makes sense, except that it's the same thing whether he wastes a feat on combat casting so he can cast without having to move, or takes lunge so he can cast from farther away. If anything, we could agree to take Combat Casting at lvl 1 then retrain it into lunge at lvl 8 when it becomes available to him. Oh wait, the campaign is going to end before that....
At the end of the day, he is a caster who plans on doing things in melee, it's not like he will always be able to not be in melee for when he casts, and always assuming you can make a 5ft step into or out of combat and still be able to make all of your attacks each round is really sh*tty advice tbh. Don't get me wrong, Lunge is a great feat, and tactically sound, if anything, I would say take both Lunge and Combat Casting. But that's neither here nor there anymore.
@Errant
4th level is going to be over half way through the game for him, are you really suggesting making it more than half way through the campaign without being able to fulfill your character concept?
I'm not a fan of dumping all your resources into the weapon either. I would rather have extra gold to drop on a ring of protection, magic armor, and a handy haversack, a stat item, not to mention random costs of just playing the game.
Also you all seem to think I am talking about the end of the game when it comes to this combo thing. I am not. For the first four levels which is the majority that he will get to play this character he needs to have a character whose concept works and is optimized. For higher level games sure, I would totally not suggest Combat Casting. Did you even read the thread, I even said Combat Casting is useless later, but at earlier levels you friggin need it just to play your character. Taking two turns to do anything because you want to take the time to move away, cast your spell, then also have time to use your Wand of True Strike, hold the charge, then move in and attack is no where near optimal advice, I'm sorry it just isn't. It's very poor resource management with the actual most important resource in the game: time.
25pt Build
Dual Talent(Str,Int) Human
Str 18
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 17
Wis 10
Cha 8
Archetypes: Bladebound, Myrmidarch
Traits: Magical Lineage(Shocking Grasp), Armor Expert(explained later)
Feats:
1st Dodge
3rd Weapon Focus
5th Prefered Spell(Shocking Grasp)
Bonus Magus 5 Heighen Spell(pre for Prefered)
7th Weapon Specialization
9th Intensify Spell
11th Power Attack
Bonus Magus 11 Empower Spell
13th Quicken Spell
15th Spell Perfection(Shocking Grasp)
17th Greater Weapon Focus
Bonus Magus 17 Greater Weapon Specialization
19th Anything, probably improved critical just for flavor os mastering your weapon
Myrmidarch is an inferior archetype until you hit 6... at 6 you get Weapon Training, wich you can apply to heavy blades and buy a gloves of dueling for instant +3 flat permanent bonus to attack and damage and your spellstrikes. at that level your have an +2 spellblade that you can enchant to a +3 keen spellblade for a total +6 flat bonus to hit and damage before adding feats, base attack and str... thats HUGE.
At 8 you get the ability to move 30ft in medium armor...
Talking about armor, here is why i choose Armor Expert trait:
As soon as you get your hand on 10.650 GP buy a Mithral Full Plate mail...
What?! But i only get heavy armor proficiency! Yep... but a mithral full plate have only -3 armor check penalty... -2 with armor expert... you will only have -2 penalty to hit with +9 base AC with MAX +3 to Dex. At level 7 you can cast without problem inside of it(it counts as only medium armor for anything other than proficiency)... at level 8 you can move your full 30ft while wearing it... also at this level the penalty is only -1... at 13 you dont have the penalty anymore to attack, at 14 you dont have any penalty at all! For 1k more gold you get a +1 version... i would save money early and get it as soon as i can going strait from the initial chain shirt to this lifetime armor as soon as possible, the fact youre using spellbound will allow you to save a lot of money from weapons to use on your armor.
I recommend some early lv1 pearl of power for extra shocking happiness.
At level 12 pick weapon training in some ranged weapon for a sudden +3(with gloves of dueling) to hit and damage with a bow! That will offset a lot of the penalties from using ranged spellstrike and making it a great spell for quick dispatching a lot of spread low level minions from the battlefield quickly with a scorching ray 1d8+3+str+bow enchantment+4d6 is respectable for someone that never used a bow before. Alternatively if you use forms spells a lot you can pick natural group and gain +3 bonus to hit and damage when shapeshifted.
At level 15 you can spend a level 1 and level 3 spell slot every round to make 2 extra attacks with a quickened empowered intensified shocking grasp and a empowered intensified shocking grasp due to perfected spell... considering you should have 3 attacks from bad plus 1 more from haste all with +4 hit and damage from gloves plus weapon training we are talking many hundreds DPR.
With a low 26 str at lv 15, we are talking something around this:
+28/28/23/18 full attack with haste and -2 from spellcombat
+28/+28 from spellstrike shocking grasp and quickened shocking grasp
1d6+19+2d6(flame/cold/eletricity) damage crit 15-20 with black blade scimitar
15d6 each shocking grasp
If everything hits its 6d6+114+12d6+30d6 without ANY critical hit and without power attack thats around 250dpr with only haste being cast and spending a 3rd and 1st level spell slot (wich you can get back cheap with lots of pearl of power to increase your spell slots per day!