Size Modifiers For Targeting and Spell Damage

[quest-master]

I had forgotten to bring this up before. Ah well. Meat for post-discussion anyway.

Would it not make sense to have size modifiers for attack rolls, Armor Class, and Reflex saving throws?

I think a +2 bonus to attack rolls, Armor Class, and Reflex saving throws as you get smaller would make sense since you are a smaller target and everything else is a bigger target to you.

A -2 penalty as you get larger should also make sense.

If you have the powerful build feature it gives you a -1 size penalty.

I would also suggest moving spell damage dice up or down 1 step per size category too (1d2<<1d3<<1d4<<1d6>>1d8>>1d10>>1d12). Let's say the damage dice given for spells assumes a Medium creature (which is most PCs anyway).

I'm reminded of a webcomic arc of "Looking for Group" where the undead warlock gets shrunken to the size of a baby and his blasts are diminished in power as a result.

[hogarth]

quest-master wrote:

I had forgotten to bring this up before. Ah well. Meat for post-discussion anyway.

Would it not make sense to have size modifiers for attack rolls, Armor Class, and Reflex saving throws?

I'm not sure what you mean; there are already size bonuses on attack rolls and Armor Class.

[quest-master]

hogarth wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean; there are already size bonuses on attack rolls and Armor Class.

Oops I meant BIGGER modifiers + modifiers for Reflex saving throws. Sorry. This is what happens when you post minutes after waking up in the morning.

I also think powerful build should have an impact on your size modifiers since it makes one "bigger and bulkier" flavor-wise.

[KaeYoss]

Powerful build (which, as far as I know, isn't core, so PF cannot touch it) doesn't grant all benefits of larger size, so it doesn't have to impose all penalties.

The size categories have some leeway, anyway. Both ogres and frost giants are large, but while ogres are but 9-10 feet tall, frosties average at 15 feet. Yet they don't get different size categories - which I think is a good thing. Don't make things too complicated.

I think the size mods for attack and AC are good as they are, and I don't think that the concept should be increased overmuch.

Extra reflex saves I might see, but I think it works well the way it is.

But spell damage? I don't think that this would be that good an idea. Sure, it makes magic a better choice for smaller critters, but that's not that bad. On the other hand, a rune giant wizard with fireballs dealing 30d6 damage would be quite nasty, but fairy spellslingers could forget damage dealing.

It would make more sense to let this affect spell areas and ranges, anyway (but even that's not a good idea). The little fairy has the same "mental strength" (i.e. class level and key ability score) as that big giant so it would probably hurt as much, but if anything, their fireballs would be smaller.

But at the end of the day, I don't want a rune giant to break out, become a high-level wizard or priest and devastate whole nations with their gargantuan meteor swarms and storms of vengeance.

[Brutesquad07]

Small races already have horrible problems with damage, if you cut spell damage to you might as well remove the small races from the PHB and hope that all you ever fight are goblins and kobolds.

[JoelF847]

There's no need to apply size mods to reflex saves, since when you change size, your Dex gets adjusted, and that affects your reflex saves. Directly applying a mod to reflex based on size would be double dipping.

[The Wraith]

KaeYoss wrote:

Powerful build (which, as far as I know, isn't core, so PF cannot touch it) doesn't grant all benefits of larger size, so it doesn't have to impose all penalties.

Well, since Half-Giants are in the Official SRD, Powerful Build is 'in' as well...

[KaeYoss]

The Wraith wrote:

Well, since Half-Giants are in the Official SRD, Powerful Build is 'in' as well...

You're right. Forgot about those.