Hi everyone,
I am preparing Skinsaw Murders for my players at the moment and I stumbled about a strange thing:
The haunt in Room B9 “Iesha’s Vengeance” gives the Player who gets choked, a DC16 Fort Save.
Success = 3d6nonleathal damage. Failure = Immediatly –8HP and dying.
Are there any rules backing this scenario up?
I couldn’t find any rules for a situation like this.
I think my players will cry foul on this situation, and as I have a lawyer AND a judge sitting at my table, so I better be sure on the ruling here :-)
Thanks
Hi everyone,
I am preparing Skinsaw Murders for my players at the moment and I stumbled about a strange thing:
The haunt in Room B9 “Iesha’s Vengeance” gives the Player who gets choked, a DC16 Fort Save.
Success = 3d6nonleathal damage. Failure = Immediatly –8HP and dying.Are there any rules backing this scenario up?
I couldn’t find any rules for a situation like this.I think my players will cry foul on this situation, and as I have a lawyer AND a judge sitting at my table, so I better be sure on the ruling here :-)
Thanks
If "it's a ghost" doesn't do it for them,
I would replace the mechanic with Suffocation from the SRD. However, that rule could be construed as harsher since it doesn't allow a save.
I'm not aware of any hard and fast rules as such. I think the Haunts let you do whatever you want within reasonable limits. I'm told they have a very Ravenloft-y feel about them.
I've DMed that section with two groups. The first really got into the Haunts and reacted well; the second group hardly noticed, didn't really engage and seemed disappointed that there weren't more nasties to hit...oh well!
I think there are other Haunts that are potentially worse than the one you mention. The dagger on the table for one, could be deadly, not to mention jumping out of the window and not hitting the weather vane!
You're the DM, your rules are the only ones that matter!
Creative Director
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The haunts in Pathfinder 2 are new rules; the closest thing you'd have to them in the core rules are traps. When I was designing them, I started off by basically building them similarly to traps, using the rules for trap building, and then changed the flavor here and there.
For the haunt in B9, it's really no different at all from a trap that launches a phantasmal killer spell at a PC. In fact, it's LESS lethal than that spell.
Both this haunt and the spell phantasmal killer grant the target two saves to avoid the effect. For phantasmal killer, it's a Will save to disbelieve the spell, then a Fort save to avoid being killed. For the haunt, it's a Will save to avoid being paralyzed with fear, and then a Fort save to avoid being reduced to near death. The haunt is even LESS powerful than phantasmal killer in another way: it's a fear effect, and thus paladins are soon immune to them, and the presence of a paladin can bolster saves against them. So can remove fear—having a cleric hit everyone in the group with remove fear spells before exploring the manor is a great tactic.
Anyway, in the end, the rules backing this scenario up are right there in the encounter; that's really all the GM should need. But if you have difficult players who demand Core Rules justification for everything you do, you can point to the phantasmal killer spell as a citation. And then you should probably remind those players that you're the GM and they are not in a polite but firm manner.
I think my players will cry foul on this situation, and as I have a lawyer AND a judge sitting at my table, so I better be sure on the ruling here :-)
How about "On this table, I'm the judge AND the lawyer, plus whatever comes out of my mouth is automatically part of the constitution" ;-)
Get a Judge Dredd costume to underline your assertions.
For the haunt in B9, it's really no different at all from a trap that launches a phantasmal killer spell at a PC. In fact, it's LESS lethal than that spell.
Ah, many thanks James,
just to mention phantasmal killer will silence my players, we had a legendary character death caused by one in 2E :-)
KaeYoss,
I will definiltly think about the Judge Dredd costume, it will greatly heighten the adventures atmosphere of gothic horror and suspense :-D
The haunts in Pathfinder 2 are new rules; the closest thing you'd have to them in the core rules are traps. When I was designing them, I started off by basically building them similarly to traps, using the rules for trap building, and then changed the flavor here and there.
For the haunt in B9, it's really no different at all from a trap that launches a phantasmal killer spell at a PC. In fact, it's LESS lethal than that spell.
Both this haunt and the spell phantasmal killer grant the target two saves to avoid the effect. For phantasmal killer, it's a Will save to disbelieve the spell, then a Fort save to avoid being killed. For the haunt, it's a Will save to avoid being paralyzed with fear, and then a Fort save to avoid being reduced to near death. The haunt is even LESS powerful than phantasmal killer in another way: it's a fear effect, and thus paladins are soon immune to them, and the presence of a paladin can bolster saves against them. So can remove fear—having a cleric hit everyone in the group with remove fear spells before exploring the manor is a great tactic.
Anyway, in the end, the rules backing this scenario up are right there in the encounter; that's really all the GM should need. But if you have difficult players who demand Core Rules justification for everything you do, you can point to the phantasmal killer spell as a citation. And then you should probably remind those players that you're the GM and they are not in a polite but firm manner.
Seems to me that there is ALSO the chance that a party cleric could make a spot check here and "turn" the haunt before it manifests. As haunts were a new concept for my players, I went over the possibilities of how haunts might be dealt with as they gathered information about The Misgivings - so they knew about this option, but I also included a point of doubt saying that not all haunts are harmful and spirits can often teach you things. ;) heh
I will definiltly think about the Judge Dredd costume, it will greatly heighten the adventures atmosphere of gothic horror and suspense :-D
Hellknight, then.
Seems to me that there is ALSO the chance that a party cleric could make a spot check here and "turn" the haunt before it manifests. As haunts were a new concept for my players, I went over the possibilities of how haunts might be dealt with as they gathered information about The Misgivings - so they knew about this option, but I also included a point of doubt saying that not all haunts are harmful and spirits can often teach you things. ;) hehThe haunts in Pathfinder 2 are new rules; the closest thing you'd have to them in the core rules are traps. When I was designing them, I started off by basically building them similarly to traps, using the rules for trap building, and then changed the flavor here and there.
For the haunt in B9, it's really no different at all from a trap that launches a phantasmal killer spell at a PC. In fact, it's LESS lethal than that spell.
Both this haunt and the spell phantasmal killer grant the target two saves to avoid the effect. For phantasmal killer, it's a Will save to disbelieve the spell, then a Fort save to avoid being killed. For the haunt, it's a Will save to avoid being paralyzed with fear, and then a Fort save to avoid being reduced to near death. The haunt is even LESS powerful than phantasmal killer in another way: it's a fear effect, and thus paladins are soon immune to them, and the presence of a paladin can bolster saves against them. So can remove fear—having a cleric hit everyone in the group with remove fear spells before exploring the manor is a great tactic.
Anyway, in the end, the rules backing this scenario up are right there in the encounter; that's really all the GM should need. But if you have difficult players who demand Core Rules justification for everything you do, you can point to the phantasmal killer spell as a citation. And then you should probably remind those players that you're the GM and they are not in a polite but firm manner.
How does the turning these haunts work with the rules in PF:Beta?
You'll note that haunts have effective hit dice. You can use those effective hit dice to roll up effective hit points. Once a haunt has effective hit points, the PF RPG channel energy rules work perfectly with them.
Also, Undead have good Will saves, so the save vs. the channel's "turn" effect would be made at 2 + 1/2 effective HD.
Also - if I recall correctly, only the subject of the haunt has the chance to notice it (i.e. it only manifests for them).