|
Having skimmed through this scenario now (haven't run it yet) I simply have to vent about one minor thing:
Other than that minor gripe this seems like a really solid scenario.
All in all, I look forward to running this scenario.
EDIT:
Contributor
|
Thanks for the kind words!
I'll respond to all your spoilers with just one of my own:
Too bad you won't get to use your alchemy skill, but I hope you aren't the only alchemist PC out there!
The steel wyverns aren't actually intelligent enough (in the literal game sense) to take Combat Expertise. To make them intelligent enough, they'd have to be too weak or clumsy to make it worthwhile. Or higher level.
I also just liked the idea of a gang that thinks spiked chains are *KEWL*, but don't actually have that much skill with them.
Sorry about the map error. With the caveat that I haven't actually looked at the final pdf version, the trapped gas should be located right above the rubble, where there is now an indentation in the ceiling. The explosion will fill the intersection and extend slightly down each tunnel.
Hope that helps!
|
|
Thanks for the kind words!
I'll respond to all your spoilers with just one of my own:
** spoiler omitted **Hope that helps!
Thanks for the response. :)
|
|
Correction: The scenario (on Tier 4-5) provided almost no challenge with its combat encounters. Using humans is just not the way to create challenges unless you make them spellcasters. An unfortunate truth.
Although the tactic they attempt to use on the small pillars is an ingenious one, they aren't too competent to fight back. They can't be just two "fighter 4"s, because they have probably 6 4th-level characters against them (on average). I know the CR system sucks regarding humanoids with class levels, which is why I would always use "Fighter n/Warrior 2". Gives a little more fighting power with the same amount of CR. Ridiculous, I know, but at least a way to come by.
Alternatively I'd hope PFS would start using the "CR by HD" chart on PFRPG, can't recall the page.
|
|
Some impressions:
The backstory is quite interesting. Kind of reminded me of the excellent movie "The Fisher King".
The encounters with the Steel Wyvern are way underwhelming. Needs more goons and/or more class levels to mount a proper challenge to a determined group of Pathfinders.
The last encounter is set a room that's way too small. A room stuffed with demons is a fun idea on principle, but in play its just too cramped, leaving about half of the party out of the action. Also, stinking cloud is a fun spell, but in practice its just a time sink. Also, the monsters in this one need more hitting power. In our group the demons needed natural 20:s to even hit our big-AC frontline fighters.
|
Contributor
|
Thanks for the feedback! I'll try to respond to some of it.
I still haven't seen the final pdf, so I can only comment on what I submitted. There's a few things that may have changed in development, so I don't want to go into too much detail without seeing what those changes actually are.
My intention for the first fight was to present an interesting but not particularly difficult fight; I wanted to give a group that has potentially never played together the chance to develop their combat dynamic before hitting bigger challenges.
I frequently add a level of warrior to opponents in my home game to raise the challenge without raising the CR (adding two levels does add 1 CR), but I discovered that doing so in Frozen Fingers pushed some of my encounters into the range of too hard, and had to fix it after playtesting. I've also been told by people who know better than me that this is generally considered to be a somewhat cheesy abuse of the CR rules.
I'll accept, however, that I may have swung too far into the range of too easy in this case. I certainly agree that the ELs didn't seem to match what I perceived as the actual difficulty of the challenges (and that the CR system in general is... problematic).
I thought I left enough room for the final fight to be interesting. I'd personally encourage a DM who disagrees to add more connected storage rooms to expand the space without making it just one big battlefield.
|
|
Well, especially on lower levels the dice contribute so much to the encounter it's impossible to balance them all the way. However when the characters have more buffer hit points, it becomes easier.
CRs and ELs and such don't give anything but a guideline. I'm not sure how you playtest these, so I can't say no more.
|
|
From a storyline standpoint, all of the players that I had run through this loved it. Great story, great memorable characters, and it was even perfect that the Chelaxian in the party had his first "taste" of Andoran in its sewers.
From what it looked like, the encounters were indeed a little easy for my APL 2nd level group, that pretty much tore through the Steel Wyverns and weren't even in too much danger from the dretches due in part to the fact that the confined space made a bottleneck for the tanks to block, while some of the sniper types fired away at them.
I'm almost wondering how it would have worked out with full blown dretches (perhaps with just the summoning ability cut off from them).
Overall, it was a big storyline and roleplaying success, and memorable for the characters. Not only that, but the "big boom" in the sewers was one of the high points of the game, as it was one of those situations that no one thought about and yet it made perfect sense to everyone once it happened.
|
|
Yeah, the encounter with the dretches turned into a real clusterf$!$. I was partly to blame for this since I set up the dretches in the furthest chamber and should've probably spread them out a bit, but the three extra dretches they managed to summon didn't help either.
The first encounter went without a breeze. The fight with the swarm at the junction was over in one turn as the Cleric with the Fire domain stepped in to cast burning hands at the swarm, killing it but also triggering the trap so that it caught both the Cleric and the Barbarian in the frontline. Both sustained some damage but the encounter was mostly laughed off.
Now the second fight with the Steel Wyverns was also easy, not really owing to the weakness of the Wyverns but to the strength of the PCs tactics: making use of all the alchemical goods left over from the first fight and a bucket they managed to one-shot one of the Steel Wyverns and leave the three others burnt, corroded and on fire. This followed with a grease spell only slowed their advance after which they were skewered by the enlarged Cleric with a longspear.
I don't see this as a bad thing: clever tactics should always be rewarded. In this case the reward was that the players were left mostly unscathed so they could go on to the final encounter with most of their daily potential unused.
|
Contributor
|
I originally intended that the swarms would emerge in succession from the rubble, so that on round one the first swarm would appear, and the second would have total cover under the rubble, just to give them a little staying power. I took it as a given that the PC's would hit the first swarm with a fire spell or alchemist's fire from the first encounter, blowing the gas trap and taking out the first swarm. Then they'd still have one swarm to deal with >:P
Obviously that got changed in development, but it would've been fun!
This scenario lists Filth fever tonic as an item found during scenario. Can this item be found in some book, or does it appear only in this scenario? If this tonic is a unique item written for this scenario, it would be nice to have the rules for it printed in the scenario chronicle sheet.
The reason I'm asking is that while I currently know what it does, I might have forgotten when my character needs to use it.
|
|
You are right, and I was speaking unofficially and off the cuff. Mithral is not one of the special substances available to everyone. I thought it was.
The +1 mithral shirt should probably be on the chronicle sheet. Again though, I can't make an official statement to that effect.
In the case it would be included afterwards, I have one question to ask:
Is the item a +1 mithral chain shirt or a mithral shirt with a +1 armor enhancement? At the moment it would refer to the latter but I ask to be sure.
Interesting enough, a mithral shirt (specific armor) weighs 10 lb. where as the mithral chain shirt weight 12½ lb. despite the fact they are two otherwise identical magic items.
|
|
bumperson
I ask for clarification whether or not the mithral shirt is open for purchase. If this takes too long, the scenario might slip away. Those who have already played the scenario and dearly want a mithral shirt would then lose the opportunity to buy one.
Or if this would grant the character to buy the item retroactively, it'd be all good. Nevertheless, at the moment we don't know if Randalan can even be stripped off of his magic armor.
|
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
|
So the Almsman...
He's a cleric of a LN god with a CG alignment? How's that work? I suspect he's an agent of Razmir because of the mask, but that doesn't work either, as he is granted spells, further alignment issues aside.
I thought that was a bit odd too. But his alignment doesn't really come up in the encounters so it's not a real problem.
|
|
I'm guessing that that one is a typo: in my original I had him as lawful. I suppose his behaviour relative to his church could be considered chaotic, but I think his structured business benefiting the poor fits the lawful paradigm. Personally I'd still consider him overall lawful.
As a compromise let's say he's neutral good! ;)
|
I ran this scenario last night, and enjoyed it very much. I would definitely suggest that you have the dretches emerge from the back rooms, instead of having the PCs come to them. I played it at the higher tier, and after they summoned in a few friends it got REALLY crowded in the back. Combat ended up bogging down into a no-hit fest (because almost everyone had cover) that took a long time and felt a bit anti-climactic.
You might also give the players a reminder that any of the one-use items they use in the adventure (alchemist's fire, oils, tanglefoot bags, etc), must be paid for at the end.
Oh, and the swarm encounter almost ended in TPK :)
|
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
|
You might also give the players a reminder that any of the one-use items they use in the adventure (alchemist's fire, oils, tanglefoot bags, etc), must be paid for at the end.
Oh, and the swarm encounter almost ended in TPK :)
I thought that one-shot items could be used in the scenario without having to pay for them.
(And yeah, the swarm almost took out the entire party when i ran it too.)
Director of Brand Strategy
|
One shot items found in a scenario may be used at no charge during the scenario, and then they may be purchased and kept at the end if the players want, at least as far as it was explained to me.
Alchemical items can always be purchased, as they fall under the "anything in the equipment section of the PHB" clause.
My understanding has always been that expendable items such as potions, oils, wands, scrolls, etc. had to be purchased if they were used. How is that any different than an alchemist's fire or tanglefoot bag? Anything non-expendable can be used and not purchased if the character gets rid of it at the end of the scenario.
My understanding has always been that expendable items such as potions, oils, wands, scrolls, etc. had to be purchased if they were used. How is that any different than an alchemist's fire or tanglefoot bag? Anything non-expendable can be used and not purchased if the character gets rid of it at the end of the scenario.
The guide to organized play says:
Items that you find during the scenario may be used during the scenario, but you have to purchase the item after the scenario is over in order for your character to be able to continue to use the item.
By this, if you find it in the scenario, you can use it. You only have to purchase items that you want to continue using afterwards.
If you find a tanglefoot bag on a defeated foe, or in an NPC's cabinet, you can use it, and not buy it afterwards.
|
Director of Brand Strategy
|
My understanding has always been that expendable items such as potions, oils, wands, scrolls, etc. had to be purchased if they were used. How is that any different than an alchemist's fire or tanglefoot bag? Anything non-expendable can be used and not purchased if the character gets rid of it at the end of the scenario.The guide to organized play says:
Items that you find during the scenario may be used during the scenario, but you have to purchase the item after the scenario is over in order for your character to be able to continue to use the item.By this, if you find it in the scenario, you can use it. You only have to purchase items that you want to continue using afterwards.
If you find a tanglefoot bag on a defeated foe, or in an NPC's cabinet, you can use it, and not buy it afterwards.
This is true of potions as well? And other expendable items? Perhaps it wasn't in the Guide itself, but I remember somewhere it being said that anything permanent, like armor or weapons, but anything that is used up in the course of the scenario must be purchased retroactively. The way wealth works is that it's assumed you sell all the loot at the end of the scenario and then buy things back with the amount of gold listed on the Chronicle. If I find and then use 6 tanglefoot bags, I can't then sell them to get the money for them. I can, however, use a +2 longsword and sell it when the scenario ends.
|
I had always understood that anything you find during the scenario you can use DURING the scenario. You can wear the armour, use the magic weapons and drink the potions and read the scrolls. We have been playing that way at home and at conventions here in the UK since the beginning.
I can think of specific examples in "Mists of Mwangi" and in the "Prince of Augustana" where possession was dispelled and disease avoided because of the carefully placed bits of treasure. Those were carefully placed by the writer.
We have never asked players to pay for items used during the adventure. We always ask players to pay for what they take away.
The Organised Play rules say
"Treasure is abstracted in Pathfinder Society Organized
Play, with PCs purchasing any items found in a scenario
(or from the list of always available for purchase items)
from a pool of gold they receive at the end of each Act of
the scenario. It should be noted that they are allowed to
claim and use the items found during the scenario itself,
but afterward they take only what they purchase on to
their next scenario."
Items they drink, scrolls they read aren't taken away and so as a DM I cannot charge the players. So use 'em up all you like. That's part of the fun. And Pathfinder first and foremost is FUN!
So here's my intent:
Items that aren't expendable must be purchased off the chronicle sheet after the scenario is over in order to use them in future scenarios. This applies to swords, wands, staves, rods, etc.
Expendable 1-shot items such as potions, scrolls, etc if they are used during the scenario do not have to be later paid for because you used them. IE, you find a potion, you drink it, all during the scenario--you don't pay for it. If, after the scenario, you want more of that potion you have to buy it off the chronicle sheet.
I'm willing to hear counter-arguments to this "have your cake and eat it too" solution, but any applications of these rules adjustments would happen in season 1.
|
|
Expendable 1-shot items such as potions, scrolls, etc if they are used during the scenario do not have to be later paid for because you used them. IE, you find a potion, you drink it, all during the scenario--you don't pay for it. If, after the scenario, you want more of that potion you have to buy it off the chronicle sheet.
I'm willing to hear counter-arguments to this "have your cake and eat it too" solution, but any applications of these rules adjustments would happen in season 1.
Thank you for the clarification. Does that mean one-shot items are or are not factored into the calculation of the per act gp reward? Thanks in advance.
BrOp
They ARE figured in, yes.
|
|
Experience tells of horror stories with expendable items and how they worked in Living Greyhawk. Nearly all scrolls, potions, and wands were left unused during the scenario as using them could have decreased the amount of wealth gained drastically.
Since the items found in the scenario can actually be used without a serious backfire, I'm happy. Less fiddling with D&D economic micromanagement.
The +1 mithril chain shirt should be listed on the chronicle. I'll see if I can't get that change in today.
|
|
Or you could probably just add a line about the chain shirt, if you've already printed it.
That's far too simple! Anywho...
My after action report
First a note about the party. They're dorks (meant in the anatomical sense, not the social sense). I have a load of fun, but they keep me on my toes, and I screw with them in return. Given I know at least 2 of them read these boards, I just had to say they're dorks.
The party, consisting of what I can only assume is a GM's worst nightmare, PCs, questions the prince, to great effect... Well, they get that he's something for a chocolate cereal. Awesome know: local gets them to act 1 well informed.
Act 1
Lesse... among other things this battle featured a tumble jumping monk insta-killing (threat, 20 to confirm, reconfirm, and his minimum damage with power attack drops him anyway) a wyvrn. Taldoran shouts out "Are you Fire Toucher?" only to receive "That's Fire Drake you 'dork'!". This lead to a dive tackling rogue, that proceeded to beat the tar out of the unsuspecting alchemist. Also the spike chain wielders go off on each other, remembering the other has reach when they hear 'I make my op attack', adjusting moves appropriately. As a bit of a kick I gave the SWs +1 chains throughout the adventure. Didn't end up meaning much as you'll soon see.
Jack (Bauer) decides to interrogate FD to no effect, then stands to see his item laying open on the table. FD then gets passed around to a few other party members before getting KO'd and looted like a chump.
Act 2
I discover a critical flaw in my GMing. The monster manual I own is 3.0, not 3.5. This is due to a disturbingly disgusting story I will spare you. Anywho these guys being uber buff, I substitute 5 giant soldier ants for the monsters I could not find. Shield other is cast by the cleric who proceeds to eat a crit (which also would have qualified for insta-kill were we using the rules) dropping him. And the party eventually makes it out of the fight *without* triggering the trap. The last bit a pleasant surprise considering I've had to remind several party members not to recreate the great Chicago fire, more than once.
Act 3
Roleplay went well till the almsman made the mistake of calling the party 'upstanding citizens' at which point I told them to make a Will 15 save, the chelaxian voluntarily failed this one he found out it was to avoid laughing at the comment, party rogue also laughs as he's appraising the room. Alchemy book was used to help identify alchemic items to heal beggars, and a bargain was quickly struck to exchange protection for information. Line to remember delivered by our common deficient hobbit: "If I fall down that's just my way of saying I agree to your offer of healing. You see it's our way of nodding yes."
Act 4
Defended exceedingly well. The monk stood out front waiting for the SW to come, signaling the party when he hears them approach. The SW goons cut their feet on shattered glass left by the rogue (effectively 4 squares of caltrops), then grease the stairs, and glitter dust the stairwell, causing them to be some combination of blind prone and balancing. After commanding their leader to approach (and evading *every* AO on him), was gang... well, y'know the end of this tale.
Act 5
5 Dretches that I almost increased to 8 by assuming that they had *not* yet used their summoning powers. Used 3.0 abilities with mod HP, and I think combat lasted all of 3 rounds, even with full DR and whatnot. Turbo hobbit went to get the 'king's crown' in an effort to appease the demons (plotting to overthrow the king after some shrooms of their own). By the time he got back with the prize sedan hobbit and company had beaten all but one to a pulp.
Conclusion
Reporting back to their VC the party then tell the 'prince' all is well in his kingdom and proceed to toss his royal father's skull at him. This is where I assume the audience would laugh and cut to final break were this a sitcom.
|
|
So this one was interesting.