1) He's gone
2) He was fun to laugh with
3) He was fun to laugh at
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I posted to the Obama one (against my better judgment), so I might as well post to this one too in the interest of fair play.
I must admit that this is difficult for me, and I'm ending up stealing other people's votes.
1) He invaded Afghanistan after 9/11. He basically _had_ to do this, but at least he knew it was the right thing to do and showed that messing with America has consequences (though I would have preferred better follow-through).
2) I am glad he ducked the shoes. I'm also glad the Iraqi journalist threw the shoes, so I'm in this weird nether-region of supporting the journalist's act of frustration, but also being glad that the American President--any American President--was too quick to be hit in the head on the public stage. It's sort of a win-win for me.
3) I liked that he said we should put an American on Mars. Didn't happen, and I didn't like what he did to NASA by way of politicizing it later, but I like that he supported manned spaceflight, at least rhetorically.
My qualifications aren't meant to be read as "I just couldn't resist" Bush-bashing, but are rather presented as an attempt to provide context.
I found this exercise far more difficult than it probably should have been, but after reflection I do earnestly like these things about the man.
You guys keep going on about his actions to fight HIV in Africa. Putting restrictions on information campaigns as a prerequisite to getting american aid, that's destroyed all he did and more. Because of Bush, the disease has spread MORE than it otherwise would. His actions, motivated by his personal belief that contraceptives and such is bad, has caused unnecessary deaths by HIV in Africa. Yay for his fight against HIV. Get it yet?
And as for him sticking to his guns: Yes. He stuck to them. Even in the face of massive evidence that doing so was wrong. He kept to his strategy in Iraq way beyond what anyone would have considered sane. Only when he ABSOLUTELY was FORCED to change tracks, did he allow change to happen. Sticking to one's guns is only a good thing if you're doing the right thing. Sticking to them when you have the wrong idea, well, that's when a president gets people killed.
Speaking of which: He kept America SAFE after 9/11? How many americans have died in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11? Not one bad word about those who answered when he called, but getting more americans killed than died at 9/11 is not a very good definition of safe, is it?
And finally, as for the economy: Clinton left a balanced account. Bush... did not. Do the maths.
much anger
Corian, the whole point of this thread, as the OP said was for anything positive you had to say about the ex-president. The OP SPECIFICALLY asked people not to vent their spleen here, as there are PLENTY of other places to do it. I didn't like many things Bush did, but I found three to compliment him on. I don't particularly like Obama, but I found three things on another thread to compliment him on as well.
If it makes you feel better, go ahead. Vent away. He's gone, and you don't have to worry about him setting policy anymore. Perhaps you should examine your own bitterness and anger, as these feelings are never productive.
EDIT: Just saw the new tag Tarren, congratulations!
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Okay as a Democrat, I will post three things I liked about Pres. Bush.
1) The way he acted after 9-11 was very Presidential, and whether you liked him or not, he kept the country calm (9-11 could have been alot worse than what it already was) and focused the country's anger on the ones who did it originally and not our "homegrown" Muslim population.
2) He recognized the AIDS epidemic in Africa and ACTIVELY worked to try and help.
3) He tried very hard to have a good relationship with Russia, unfortunatly, due to life beyond his control, Putin decided to be "Little Mister Dictator" and not talk to us anymore.
Those are the 3 good things that stick out in my mind.
People keep saying untrue things about him, dear. Best example is how he saved people from HIV in Africa. I am sorry to spoil a little "we were right in voting for the guy anyway, weren't we?" thread, but such screed cannot be allowed to stand. I am sure there were things he did right, such as correctly picking his nose hairs, but on virtually ALL the things he did as president, the verdict is simply abysmal.
I do agree, however, that he did okay in protecting the american muslims from the anger 9/11 built up. However, they have been harassed by various departments, they lost virtually all civil liberties, all in the name of the Holy War on Terror, and I doubt they feel he did them any favours for putting them indefinitely to jail for sending money to their families abroad.
The fact is just that there are things a president shouldn't do. Destroying the right of the people to communicate unsupervised is one of those things. If nothing else, future historians will consider that his greatest crime.
I am sorry to spoil a little "we were right in voting for the guy anyway, weren't we?" thread, but such screed cannot be allowed to stand. I am sure there were things he did right, such as correctly picking his nose hairs, but on virtually ALL the things he did as president, the verdict is simply abysmal.
Hmm ..first off, this isn't a thread to affirm that folks were right in voting for him. I personally NEVER voted for him. I just think that he did do a few things right, and that he wasn't a complete idiot. YMMV, and I'm sure it does. But as I said, feel free to flog your anger one last time, it's your last chance.
I do agree, however, that he did okay in protecting the american muslims from the anger 9/11 built up. However, they have been harassed by various departments, they lost virtually all civil liberties, all in the name of the Holy War on Terror, and I doubt they feel he did them any favours for putting them indefinitely to jail for sending money to their families abroad.
I don't even know how to begin on this one. Which American citizens of Moslem descent have lost their rights? Any quotes? Links?
The fact is just that there are things a president shouldn't do. Destroying the right of the people to communicate unsupervised is one of those things. If nothing else, future historians will consider that his greatest crime.
We can talk later in the Obama administration about 'unsupervised' communication. We'll see how he goes on the Fairness Doctrine and Internet controls and restrictions.
But enough, I'm done, mixing politics and gaming is giving me heartburn. I now return to my PbPs ...
Monkey exits Stage Left
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I don't know much about his work in africa, but I'm pretty sure that what people are admiring is that he actually attempted to help more than any other president, He may or may not have screwed it up, I don't know, but at least he didn't just ignore the problem and attempted much more than any other president to do something about it. the EFFORT he put forth WAS exemplary even if the RESULTS were less than to be desired, because now he has set an example that following presidents will have to live up to, presidents who hopefully WILL do a better job of it.
And I never voted for the guy, nor would I have even if I did believe in voting for one of the two main parties.
What he attempted to do was spread his fundamentalist christian views and values as far as they would be spread. It's the classic South Park quote:
"You people don't need food, you need bible!"
And when people act that way, spreading their own faith by forcing it on people who need help, what happens is people feel betrayed and used. Yay for american aid policy during the Bush presidency!
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What he attempted to do was spread his fundamentalist christian views and values as far as they would be spread. It's the classic South Park quote:
"You people don't need food, you need bible!"
And when people act that way, spreading their own faith by forcing it on people who need help, what happens is people feel betrayed and used. Yay for american aid policy during the Bush presidency!
I would recommend picking up a copy of The Next Christiandom by Phillip Jenkins. Bush didn't need to "force" Fundamental Christianity on Africa, it is thriving quite nicely on it's own there.
Yet even so, he felt the need to destroy their chances of reproductive health by enforcing a "global gag rule". How can that be if they love it on their own? Sorry, doesn't add up.
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According to the State Department numbers, less than 10% of the PEPFAR money was actually spent on abstinance until marriage programs. The rest was spent on care and treatment, antiretroviral drugs, TB/HIV services, support for orphans and vulnerable children , infrastructure, prevention and treatment of opportunistic infections, services to prevent and treat malaria, tuberculosis, waterborne illness, and other acute infections,training and salaries for personnel, including clinicians, laboratorians, pharmacists, counselors, medical records staff, outreach workers, peer educators, renovation and refurbishment of health care facilities, updated laboratory equipment and distribution systems, logistics and management for drugs and other commodities, prevention of mother to child transmission interventions, programs focusing on blood safety, injection safety, secondary infection prevention, counseling and education, and yes, even buying and distributing condoms. I believe that you have let your negative opinion of President Bush and other Christians blind you to the realities of what is really happening.
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1) Vacation time: No matter how horrible things were going, no matter the fears, no matter how much suffering was happening on his watch the man found the time to kick back and relax. He set the record for vacation time and he did it during some of the most chaotic times the US has ever seen. The man knew how to put himself first. This is a skill that many of us should learn
2) Nepotism: the man never forgot his friends. He choose people who were loyal to him and he stood by them no matter how incompetent, grossly negligent, or under qualified they were. I could only hope to have a boss like that, the kind that puts his employees welfare before that of the public's.
3) Simplification: he loved to try and simplify things. For example: he tried to simply foreign policy by sorting countries into handy terms like "good/ evil" or "with us/ against us" and although such terms absolutely hurt foreign relations, it helped the average and uninformed American to know who to hate. It also helped the average American feel that Bush was one of them. Never mind Obama, most Americans well look back on the Bush administration and think "if he can be president so can I!". He made it seem easy.
Hee-hee. I totally agree but prepare for the flames, Guy.
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2) Nepotism: the man never forgot his friends. He choose people who were loyal to him and he stood by them no matter how incompetent, grossly negligent, or under qualified they were. I could only hope to have a boss like that, the kind that puts his employees welfare before that of the public's.
Technically, that is not nepotism, it is the spoils system. It is also a time honored political tradition that every president since John Adams has engaged in.
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While for the most part I could have taken a pass on these past 8 years, the following:
1. His ability to inspire passion in support of beliefs in people. Everyone loves Bill, but how often do they offer up paens in support or opposition to his policies?
2. He put the U.S. first, last, and always in foreign policy. He may have said some egregiously blunt things, but is realpolitik doubletalk really that much nobler? How many foreign policy lies and false handshakes does it take to make a "great" President.
3. He is not Al Gore and he is not John Kerry. He did not sell out his executive partner, make a movie legally recognized for junk science, then accept an award for that movie intended as a deliberate snub to his country; and he certainly did not endorse Pat Pulling denunciations of gaming, or set up his wife up to run a censorship committee. He did not present a policy flip based on political pandering as the definition of his beliefs.
Whenever you ask what we did to deserve George W. Bush, take a moment to ask yourself twice just what offense against our core values we perpetrated to deserve Al Gore running against him, then ask twice what further transgression we committed to deserve John Kerry running against him.
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much anger
It's nice to see that Corian is still that same jovial self and that little has changed.
Truth be told, I tend to stay out of politics as I typically know little about it outside of my tiny world. But on that note...
I truly believe that he did the best job he could have possibly done with the economy with the artificially inflated market he was given from the Clinton years. Of course, many people have their opinions about the "cause" of the current economic crisis -- including blaming Bush for losing their job or some such.
The problem that I have with all this is that things happen (or really don't happen) in Congress. The president isn't a king. So many people make it sound like this position gives him the power of life and death over the entire world. (And listening to the publicity that Obama is getting, you'd think that Obama had the cure to cancer and poverty.)
You know, I’m a Christian, a conservative, and registered republican, and I’m straining to find three things I liked about Bush.
1) He attempted to improve public education.
2) He attempted to change social security from the world’s biggest Ponzi scheme into private accounts.
3) He attempted to appointed conservative justices (this one looks like he may have achieved his aim, but it will take some time to say for sure).
3. He is not Al Gore and he is not John Kerry. [snip] Whenever you ask what we did to deserve George W. Bush, take a moment to ask yourself twice just what offense against our core values we perpetrated to deserve Al Gore running against him, then ask twice what further transgression we committed to deserve John Kerry running against him.
This is a very good point. I didn’t WANT Bush in 2000 – I didn’t vote for him so much as I voted against Gore. In 2004 I was done with Bush and voted 3rd party since I didn’t want Kerry either. The choices lately have ranged from awful to terrible.
About the best thing that I can say for the Bush presidency is that it opened my eyes to the myth of “electability” and the myth that we “can’t afford to allow their candidate to win.” Bush wasn’t my choice in 2000, but he won the republican primary because “he was electable” and “we couldn’t afford to have another 4 years with a democrat in the white house.” I fell for it then, and voted for him against my better judgment. Since that time, I’ve seen quite plainly what that kind of thinking gets us. It’s why I didn’t vote for McCain in 08 (3rd party again). If the best reasons a candidate can give for why I should vote for him are a) the letter (D/R) next to his name and b) his opponent is even worse, that isn’t good enough for me any more.
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If the best reasons a candidate can give for why I should vote for him are a) the letter (D/R) next to his name and b) his opponent is even worse, that isn’t good enough for me any more.
That is why I am giving the Modern Whigs a shot.
I am tired of voting against people.Indeed, with New York featuring a selection of farther left socialists or quasi-libertarians last time, there was not even a third party option I could wake up with myself the next day.
The one good thing that perhaps might come out of this rabid fannish ideological cat fight we've been involved in for decades is perhaps some viable 3rd parties can evolve. Thank you for the Modern Whig link Sam, I am still getting the sour taste from Bob Barr's nomination out of my mouth. This election was actually the first time I voted Republican since 1988 just because of that jackanape.
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The one good thing that perhaps might come out of this rabid fannish ideological cat fight we've been involved in for decades is perhaps some viable 3rd parties can evolve. Thank you for the Modern Whig link Sam, I am still getting the sour taste from Bob Barr's nomination out of my mouth. This election was actually the first time I voted Republican since 1988 just because of that jackanape.
You are welcome.
Mind, I agree with over 80% of their basic platform, so . . .And yes, perhaps this will strengthen the third party movement. I would certainly like to see more whiggists show up.
:D
3. His appointment of Condoleeza Rice.
Yah, she's hot.
You are welcome.
Mind, I agree with over 80% of their basic platform, so . . .And yes, perhaps this will strengthen the third party movement. I would certainly like to see more whiggists show up.
:D
I may not agree with everything you say Sam, and I do think that you are a bit aggressive in your debating style, but I admire your well-researched informative replys. I will always listen to anyone, and I will always try my hardest to not allow my views to harden in dogma. Debate is supposed to be instructive and informative, it's the reason we do it no?
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I may not agree with everything you say Sam, and I do think that you are a bit aggressive in your debating style, but I admire your well-researched informative replys. I will always listen to anyone, and I will always try my hardest to not allow my views to harden in dogma. Debate is supposed to be instructive and informative, it's the reason we do it no?
One would think that.
See my rant on the mediatainment industry for why it seems that may not be accurate.|
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I would recommend picking up a copy of The Next Christiandom by Phillip Jenkins. Bush didn't need to "force" Fundamental Christianity on Africa, it is thriving quite nicely on it's own there.What he attempted to do was spread his fundamentalist christian views and values as far as they would be spread. It's the classic South Park quote:
"You people don't need food, you need bible!"
And when people act that way, spreading their own faith by forcing it on people who need help, what happens is people feel betrayed and used. Yay for american aid policy during the Bush presidency!
That it is.
And speaking of African Christians, some of those Ethiopian churches are wicked aweseome. A great place to get ideas for a D&D adventure.
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I would recommend picking up a copy of The Next Christiandom by Phillip Jenkins. Bush didn't need to "force" Fundamental Christianity on Africa, it is thriving quite nicely on it's own there.What he attempted to do was spread his fundamentalist christian views and values as far as they would be spread. It's the classic South Park quote:
"You people don't need food, you need bible!"
And when people act that way, spreading their own faith by forcing it on people who need help, what happens is people feel betrayed and used. Yay for american aid policy during the Bush presidency!
That it is.
And speaking of African Christians, some of those Ethiopian churches are wicked aweseome. A great place to get ideas for a D&D adventure.
You mean those ones that are underground, right? I remember seeing something on the History Channel or somesuch a while back with these beautiful churches built in the walls of these crevasses so that they were not visible from a distance. I'm pretty sure they were in Ethiopia, and they would make a wicked location for a DnD adventure. Perhaps hidden temples to Sarenrae constructed underground in the Mana Wastes...
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The one good thing that perhaps might come out of this rabid fannish ideological cat fight we've been involved in for decades is perhaps some viable 3rd parties can evolve. Thank you for the Modern Whig link Sam, I am still getting the sour taste from Bob Barr's nomination out of my mouth. This election was actually the first time I voted Republican since 1988 just because of that jackanape.
Bob Barr was the reason I voted for Nader.
Barr's a Libertarian that's pro-life and supports stricter drug laws. That's like being a Communist that's in favor of a total free market system. You just can't DO that, man!
EDITED FOR CLARITY.
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And speaking of African Christians, some of those Ethiopian churches are wicked aweseome. A great place to get ideas for a D&D adventure.You mean those ones that are underground, right? I remember seeing something on the History Channel or somesuch a while back with these beautiful churches built in the walls of these crevasses so that they were not visible from a distance. I'm pretty sure they were in Ethiopia, and they would make a wicked location for a DnD adventure. Perhaps hidden temples to Sarenrae constructed underground in the Mana Wastes...
Those are the ones.
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That is why I am giving the Modern Whigs a shot.
I am tired of voting against people.
Thanks, Sam! I am definitely going to give these guys a closer look!
Bob Barr was the reason I voted for Nader.
Barr's a Libertarian. That's pro-life. And supports stricter drug laws. That's like being a Communist that's in favor of a total free market system. You just can't DO that, man!
Did Nader in 2000. I think you have the Libertarian Party platform a bit skewed .. check their platform out.
I still think Barr is a political opportunist. He's no more a Libertarian than Karl Rove is a Democrat.
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Did Nader in 2000. I think you have the Libertarian Party platform a bit skewed .. check their platform out.
Bob Barr was the reason I voted for Nader.
Barr's a Libertarian that's pro-life and supports stricter drug laws. That's like being a Communist that's in favor of a total free market system. You just can't DO that, man!
How so?
How so?Did Nader in 2000. I think you have the Libertarian Party platform a bit skewed .. check their platform out.
Bob Barr was the reason I voted for Nader.
Barr's a Libertarian that's pro-life and supports stricter drug laws. That's like being a Communist that's in favor of a total free market system. You just can't DO that, man!
Ahh.. I thought you were saying being a Libertarian was being Pro-life and anti-drug. Upon careful rereading I see you were actually talking solely about Barr. Mea Culpa
Edit: check the main page of that Libertarian linky to see him denounce the DOMA act HE WROTE AS A REPUBLICAN! NOW THAT'S CHUTZPAH!
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How so?Did Nader in 2000. I think you have the Libertarian Party platform a bit skewed .. check their platform out.
Bob Barr was the reason I voted for Nader.
Barr's a Libertarian that's pro-life and supports stricter drug laws. That's like being a Communist that's in favor of a total free market system. You just can't DO that, man!
Ahh.. I thought you were saying being a Libertarian was being Pro-life and anti-drug. Upon careful rereading I see you were actually talking solely about Barr. Mea Culpa
Edit: check the main page of that Libertarian linky to see him denounce the DOMA act HE WROTE AS A REPUBLICAN! NOW THAT'S CHUTZPAH!
Wow. (Sorry about being unclear before... It's been a long day.)
1) he did what he thought was right, instead of what was popular
2) he didn't give up just because things were difficult or unexpected
3) he maintained a sense of dignity and humor despite relentless personal attacks against himself & his family
You know, I was struggling to find three things, but I find I can honestly agree with that.
(That doesn't mean I agreed with one single policy he enacted,however)
Okay. It's only been a few days, but already I'm starting to like him better.
1) he did what he thought was right, instead of what was popular
2) he didn't give up just because things were difficult or unexpected
3) he maintained a sense of dignity and humor despite relentless personal attacks against himself & his family
You know, I was struggling to find three things, but I find I can honestly agree with that.
(That doesn't mean I agreed with one single policy he enacted,however)
I can agree with those, too.