Gorbacz
|
Or to make it simple, vs the rest of 1-st level spells. These two are major offenders, responsible for countless low-CR encounters being over before they begun.
Worse, they put the rest of 1st lvl spell list out of picture. OK, Magic Missile is valid at higher levels. But let's say, Cause Fear ? Shocking Grasp (Duskblades excluded) ?
| Majuba |
Or to make it simple, vs the rest of 1-st level spells. These two are major offenders, responsible for countless low-CR encounters being over before they begun.
Worse, they put the rest of 1st lvl spell list out of picture. OK, Magic Missile is valid at higher levels. But let's say, Cause Fear ? Shocking Grasp (Duskblades excluded) ?
While these are decent spells, save DC's and HD limits at low level make them not all that likely to be useful. By second level burning hands is pretty much a better spell than either.
Even a Wizard with a 20 Int will only affect 3 out of 4 with Sleep - and the 4th can kick his friends awake pretty easily.
Again, not bad spells, but I've actually very very rarely seen them used in 3rd edition.
| Mattastrophic |
Or to make it simple, vs the rest of 1-st level spells. These two are major offenders, responsible for countless low-CR encounters being over before they begun.
Worse, they put the rest of 1st lvl spell list out of picture. OK, Magic Missile is valid at higher levels. But let's say, Cause Fear ? Shocking Grasp (Duskblades excluded) ?
Ray of Enfeeblement, aka Best First-Level Spell Ever?
But anyways, Sleep's one-round casting time makes it pretty dookie, on top of the 4HD TOTAL creatures affected. It really shouldn't have a HD cap (along with Daze Monster), because it's one of the very few spells that doesn't work past level 2, even when Heightened.
Color Spray is pretty awesome, yes. It's even pretty good at high levels, as a one-round stun is essentially death. Don't forget that when a creature is Stunned, it drops what it's holding, by the way.
I would suggest removing the variable-by-HD effect and make something standardized, like Dazed for 1d4 rounds or something.
What we don't want to do, though, is 4Eize the game by getting rid of "sticky" status effects, that's for sure.
-Matt
Gorbacz
|
Dammit, forgot about The Ray. :)
IMHO Sleep should be 1 standard action casting time. First failed Will save gets a "sleepy" condition (sickened), second failed save gets you "almost asleep" (nauseated), third failed save and you kick the bucket.
Color Spray... I am thinking of adjusting the severity of effects. No blinding/konckout, just dazes/stuns at varying duration ?
| Black Tom |
I think Sleep should be a standard action. Since the nerf, I haven't been able to use it at all either as a DM or a PC. By the time you get it off, you'll have allies all over the place at risk of being affected.
The HD cap is enough to keep it balanced IMHO. Or make it affect 4 creatures of the caster's choosing within the area of effect.
delabarre
|
Or to make it simple, vs the rest of 1-st level spells. These two are major offenders, responsible for countless low-CR encounters being over before they begun.
Worse, they put the rest of 1st lvl spell list out of picture. OK, Magic Missile is valid at higher levels. But let's say, Cause Fear ? Shocking Grasp (Duskblades excluded) ?
Shocking grasp + Sneak Attack Damage = SHOCK & AWE! ;-)
| The Wraith |
Ray of Enfeeblement, aka Best First-Level Spell Ever?
Very good spell, but it doesn't deal Strength damage, only a PENALTY to Strength, so it doesn't stack with itself.
At best, you can Empower it and deal (1d6x1.5)+5 as a 3rd-level spell (although there is some debate around this, the Empower feat says "All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half", and so this by RAW would multiply only the d6 portion of the spell), or Maximize it for 11 Strength penalty (as a 4th-level spell).Sure, if you score a Crit...
| Noir le Lotus |
although there is some debate around this, the Empower feat says "All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half", and so this by RAW would multiply only the d6 portion of the spell)
You should read the official FAQ, where it is clearly stated that if a spell does something like 1D6 + 5, the variable part is 1D6 + 5 not 1D6.
| The Wraith |
You should read the official FAQ, where it is clearly stated that if a spell does something like 1D6 + 5, the variable part is 1D6 + 5 not 1D6.
Can you please tell me exactly where to look for this? Because I have downloaded the last Official 3.5 FAQ, but I cannot found it anywhere...
EDIT: the only reference I found was in the old 3.0 FAQ, where it stated that "A lightning bolt spell's damage is “variable,” and an empowered lightning bolt deals 1.5 times damage." and "Because the Empower Spell feat increases a spell’s variable, numeric effects. In the case of magic missile, that’s the spell’s damage, not the number of missiles.".
However, a 'variable, numeric effect' does include even flat bonuses (I hardly believe so...)? Because a '+1 for ever 2 caster levels' is a flat bonus, not a 'variable, numeric effect' IMHO...
On the contrary, the "1d4+1 for every magic missile" in the Magic Missile spell is multiplied by 1.5 because it is part of the 'variable' formula, not added at the end.
| Swordslinger |
Sleep's 1 round casting time is well enough to balance it out. Color spray is mostly balanced that you've got to be in melee to use it. And at low levels, a wizard in melee is easily dropped, so it's a risky proposition. Now if people use the optional bonus starting HP rule, then color spray absolutely should get nerfed. If a wizard is no longer a fragile glass cannon at low levels, then he shouldn't be able to drop lots of monsters with a single spell.
The main thing about color spray that I don't like is the weird status effect shuffling. It's just too complicated. Unconscious for 2d4, then blinded and stunned for 1d4, then just stunned for 1 round. Why? Seriously... can't we simply that a little.
2d4 unconscious is synonymous with dead anyway in 3E, so lets just leave it at that. As for blinded and stunned or just plain blinded, why does it even really matter? Granted some things may be immune to certain status conditions, but we're talking low level creatures here and anything that's immune to stunning will be immune to mind-affecting too. So might as well simplify it a bit.
| Mattastrophic |
Very good spell, but it doesn't deal Strength damage, only a PENALTY to Strength, so it doesn't stack with itself.
Actually, that's a benefit. Monsters that are immune to ability damage, such as undead, are not immune to ability penalties.
But anyways, yeah, Sleep's pretty dookie, and Color Spray can be cleaned up.
-Matt
| Dragonchess Player |
One fix might be to have sleep affect 1 creature + 1 creature per level (maximum 4) in the area, while keeping a 4 HD cap per creature. Deep slumber would be similar, affecting 1 creature/2 caster levels, with a HD cap per creature equal to caster level (keeping it relevant for longer).
The switch from 2d4 HD to 4 HD with 3.5 pretty much made sleep useless after 1st-2nd level (especially since the metamagic feats Empower Spell and Maximize Spell could no longer be used) and made color spray more attractive (even with the change to Enlarge Spell between 3.0 and 3.5 preventing an Enlarged color spray as a 30 ft cone). Deep slumber was hardly worth it either, IMO, compared to hold person and stinking cloud.