"Mighty Swing (Ex): The barbarian automatically confirms a critical hit. This power is used as an immediate action once a critical threat has been determined. A barbarian must be at least 12th level before selecting this power."
TWF: Twice as many attacks.
Vorpral: Auto Kill on a natural 20 after confirm critical
I completely over looked this.
Having two weapon fighting, with this rage power and a +6 weapon, on the off chance you get a natural 20 while having a swift action open you can auto kill anything that can be with vorpral.
Alone with one or the other is bad, but with both is murder.
I am sorry, but we need to power down Vorpral IMHO.
I was thinking adding a fort save after confirmation for the victim of:
10+1/2 Base attack bonus + enhancment bonus to hit?
What are your thoughts?
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I was thinking adding a fort save after confirmation for the victim of:
10+1/2 Base attack bonus + enhancment bonus to hit?What are your thoughts?
Um vorpal sword == cutting off your head. A fort save isn't going to save you, a reflect save may mean you just take the blow to a meatier part of your body and remain in contact with your head
Um vorpal sword == cutting off your head. A fort save isn't going to save you, a reflect save may mean you just take the blow to a meatier part of your body and remain in contact with your head
I was thinking adding a fort save after confirmation for the victim of:
10+1/2 Base attack bonus + enhancment bonus to hit?What are your thoughts?
Great! That is fine, if that is better then fine, I don't care about what sort of saving through or what ever. My main concern is this horrific over powered combination, this needs to be kept in check.
Do you agree?
Vorpal weapons just aren't that powerful. You're automatically killing a certain subset of opponents 5% of the time. Great! But by the time you can afford a +1 vorpal sword, a cleric or wizard can kill opponents 5% of the time just by sneezing.
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Vorpal weapons just aren't that powerful. You're automatically killing a certain subset of opponents 5% of the time. Great! But by the time you can afford a +1 vorpal sword, a cleric or wizard can kill opponents 5% of the time just by sneezing.
Can (pre-Epic) casters do this multiple times in a round? Every round, all day long? Regardless of if they've had enough rest or not?
And Death spells just aren't as powerful now as they were in 3.X. Good luck affecting a dragon with one now. You have to 1) beat their SR, 2) hope they fail their save, and 3) pray its hp total is low enough that the spell will do any good. 3.X casters only had to deal with 1 and 2. Vorpal weapons require 1) a natural 20 on the die to hit, and 2) confirming the critical.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Just about all effects that impact confirming a critical don't apply to special weapon effects that only occur on a critical, such as flaming burst or vorpal. While the Mighty Swing barbarian power doesn't specifically say that yet, it's pretty likely that it will by the time the final version is out.
It's good to point it out though, so Jason and co. and add a line in to that effect.
Just about all effects that impact confirming a critical don't apply to special weapon effects that only occur on a critical, such as flaming burst or vorpal. While the Mighty Swing barbarian power doesn't specifically say that yet, it's pretty likely that it will by the time the final version is out.
It's good to point it out though, so Jason and co. and add a line in to that effect.
That is a very good point.
Still, a 2.5% chance of getting double natural 20s to insta-kill a dragon??? Especially when they have 6 attacks plus haste? They wouldn't even need 2 natural 20s, just to hit the target, and there is a feat now to increase the confirm critical rolls. Also this could be done with a dagger, or even a master work kitten knife. That just doesn't seem right for an non-epic campaign.
Although GM's like me could shamelessly use this type of technique to foul ends, the Vorpal ability MUST be confirmed by a second roll. The extraordinary ability applies normally to the barbarian class. Certain items like the vorpal blade will fall OUTSIDE the parameters of this class ability, and the confirmation roll would be required due to the item, not the class ability.
Although GM's like me could shamelessly use this type of technique to foul ends, the Vorpal ability MUST be confirmed by a second roll. The extraordinary ability applies normally to the barbarian class. Certain items like the vorpal blade will fall OUTSIDE the parameters of this class ability, and the confirmation roll would be required due to the item, not the class ability.
OK, fine, I got that part, but do you still think a lucky 2 natural 20s in a row against a dragon should warrant an insta-kill? Also giving the fact that if they use two weapon fighting they could get as many as 9 attacks? Upping their chances, if my math is correct, to over 22.5% when their hasted?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Still, a 2.5% chance of getting double natural 20s to insta-kill a dragon??? Especially when they have 6 attacks plus haste? They wouldn't even need 2 natural 20s, just to hit the target, and there is a feat now to increase the confirm critical rolls. Also this could be done with a dagger, or even a master work kitten knife. That just doesn't seem right for an non-epic campaign.
Actually, the chance of 2 20s in 2 consecutive rolls is 1 in 400, which is .0025 or 0.25%, i.e one quarter of one percent. So, yes, a vorpal weapon can insta-kill a dragon, I wouldn't count on those odds to save me before becoming a crispy dragon snack.
If I rembmer the math right, the chances of getting 2 20s for one or more attacks out of 9 (assuming you had 4 iterative attacks, two weapon fighting to the max, and a haste going) is about 2.23%. (99.75% of a single attack not having double 20s, to the 9th power results in 97.77% of 9 attacks not getting double 20s, and the remaining 2.23% of the time, you'd get that one or more times out of 9.)
9 attacks yield ~97.7% chances you WON'T get two 20s on one of those attacks.
If the Confirm rolls have an AVERAGE 50% chance of Success (for all Iteratives w/ 2WF):
9 attacks yield ~79.6% chances you WON'T Confirm a Crit.
Those both needed a 20 to Threaten a Crit in the first place, so high Crit Weapons would do better.
Keen Vorpal Weapons ARE Expensive for a reason...
9 attacks yield ~97.7% chances you WON'T get two 20s on one of those attacks.
If the confirm roll is 50% chance of making it:
9 attacks yield ~79.6% chances you WON'T Confirm a Crit.
Those both needed a 20 to Threaten a Crit in the first place, so high Crit Weapons would do better.
To run it with actual BAB/AC would be loathsome because of Iterative Attacks' reducing BAB for the Confirm.Keen Vorpal Weapons ARE Expensive for a reason...
Making them Keen wouldn't do any good, it states only on a Natural 20 (with confirmation) for a reason.
So you have a 5% chance per swing to get a chance to lob a head off.
Sure. So it doesn't seem so overpowered really. If all those attacks are hitting, You'd have at least as big a chance of killing most Creatures thru HP damage. (Especially with larger Crit Ranges)