The Craft Skill: Paying for parts only?

[hobolibrarian]

When creating my ranger for an upcoming campaign, I go over the skill sets with my DM and other players and I opt for weapon creation, bow making in my character's case as my craft skill. I put in my ranks, and when it came to gold allotment and the purchase of weapons, I ask my DM if my skill in bow making would allow me to pay for parts only. You can't, and be it DM's call or rules illustrated in the rule books, I will not argue, but it got me thinking.
I knit. My latest creation was a pair of fingerless gloves. I added nickel plated diamond studs to them. The yarn I use costs me about 2.99 a skein, or at least 5 or 6 pairs of the gloves themselves. The studs are 25 in a 5 dollar bag, which can last me about 3 pairs of gloves to dress up with some left over. Something like that would cost say 20 dollars at a store, but because I was able to make them, it cost me about 7 because I can make them.
I was thinking about this among other things when it came time for my hero to be to get herself armed.
I am a little curious as to how this can work in an RPG setting. For instance, how many ranks in Craft would a player need to be able to make a standard longbow? How advanced would one need to be when creating a composite bow. When magic is involved in creation, another craft skill is required (I think). How many ranks, and would it be worth it to the player to use points in that way?
Now, let's think about the question of parts. Where would the player be able to get them? Let's go back to my earlier example of the studded gloves. I can get my yarn at any craft chain store location and there is usually a Michaels or JoAnn Fabrics nearby. The studs, on the other hand are a whole other ballpark. I obtained them at a leather crafting store that has locations throughout the United States, but only one in my home state, about 40 minutes from where I live.
Bearing this in mind, where would an adventurer find parts? Is there an Honest Pete's Bow parts emporium located in say Korvosa, which is a major city, or any with major mercantile traffic. Or, would something like this be in a smaller town. My studs are not in a huge city. It's part of a shopping strip. Would a parts store be a little smaller since it's only supplies?
If that's the case, why would a PC go out of his or her way when you can just get the weapon they would otherwise make where it's more easily attained, however more expensive?
I'm just curious more than anything and would like to know what others think. My ranger spent the proper amount on a bow already made.

[mindgamez]

The short answer is "whatever the GM says" but here is how I as GM would handle it.

You want to make bows. The example of a bow isn't the same as a pair of knit gloves. Yarn can be used to make almost any knit fabric, but a bow is going to need a very specific piece of wood that isn't going to be used for anything else. The wood needs to be carefully selected for grain and growth. It would take a bowyer to find that one perfect staff to start with. If you were in my game it would either be an adventure on its own to find the right wood or a roll of #d# days to locate and a skill check to harvest it without damage. Then another skill check to craft. Done and in this case free (unless you had to buy the saw to cut it) barring any woodcutting fees or whatnot.

Now if you were a leatherworker and wanted to make a suit of studded leather armor I would say. 50% cost to buy leather and studs from local craftsmen and a successful skill check to assemble.

I have always felt that if you are willing to invest in a craft skill, equipment within your skill, and skill level, should be cheaper of even free. This is why you need a GM and not charts. Each case is unique. If you wanted to take armor smithing and start with full plate it would not only take one hell of a skill check roll but also 85-90% of the cost to get the steel of the right quality and in the right quantity to make it. Also the reputation of the character will influence price from suppliers.

[Cpt_kirstov]

mindgamez wrote:

The short answer is "whatever the GM says" but here is how I as GM would handle it.

You want to make bows. The example of a bow isn't the same as a pair of knit gloves. Yarn can be used to make almost any knit fabric, but a bow is going to need a very specific piece of wood that isn't going to be used for anything else. The wood needs to be carefully selected for grain and growth. It would take a bowyer to find that one perfect staff to start with. If you were in my game it would either be an adventure on its own to find the right wood or a roll of #d# days to locate and a skill check to harvest it without damage. Then another skill check to craft. Done and in this case free (unless you had to buy the saw to cut it) barring any woodcutting fees or whatnot.

I would rule it similar, but slightly different. I would say the first few(2-3) skill points you would be making just strings (since these can break without completely destroying your bow, and can be sold to many hunters to replace broken strings) once this skill level is passed you would be able to start making regular bows - one skill check for the bow itself, and another for the string. I would start the skill check for the bow at 18-25 and lower it by 1-2 for each additional point in the craft skill until the DC was 15. Failure on the craft skill to create the bow by more than 5 means the bow snaps, or is otherwise unrepairable and just scrap wood. Failure by less than 5 means that the bow will fire but is not weighted right, another skill check can be made (DC 5 less than the original) to correct that weight. Firing with a bow that is mis-weighted results in a -1 to hit and crit only on a 20.

on a separate, yet related note - I have hunted with a bow that I carved by hand with a pocket knife, took 8 tries to get something that shot in a straight line, and another 5 hours past that the get the weight correct to allow me to hit a target a reasonable amount of the time. Building a bow string takes about 15 minutes once you know how to do it, but if you don't tie it off correctly it can cause problems.

[Ughbash]

There is a rule I think in the DMG that if you make an item you pay 1/3rd the cost of the item.

Away from books and SRD is blcoked from work so can't give you more info than that.

[Repairman Jack]

The SRD has, under Craft skills, a formula and charts for making most anything.

For bows specifically the craft check DC is 12 for regular longbow or shortbow, DC15 for composite long or short, and DC15+(2xstr rating) for composite with strength.

Materials cost is 1/3 of the purchase price.

Multiply your check by the DC. If it meets or exceeds the full sale price in silver pieces, you're done. If less, then it represents progress that week. The next week you only have to make the difference. Continue like so until finished. If you fail the check by 4 or less, there is no progress, if you fail by 5 or more, you ruin what you've done and lose 1/2 of the materials cost and must kick in more money.

Masterwork is done as a separate component. DC20 and materials cost of 1/3, same as an item, so 100 gp for weapons and 50 gp for armor.

First make the item, then make the masterwork component as a separate project.