Historically, the roman legions ruled the world thanks to a simple yet efficient idea: the combined forces of wall-shields and thrusting weapons (such as the gladii).
In 3.x, this is a suboptimal choice at best, thanks to the -2 to hit given by Tower Shields.
My idea is (well, actually, this comes by a friend of mine who was always bothered by this): why not dropping the -2 to hit with piercing weapons only ?
I mean, the Tower Shield was actually made to work exactly in this way... wielding it you have a massive defense but you are not very efficient to make swings with a weapon. But with a piercing weapon you actually thrust, not swing...
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Historically, the roman legions ruled the world thanks to a simple yet efficient idea: the combined forces of wall-shields and thrusting weapons (such as the gladii).
In 3.x, this is a suboptimal choice at best, thanks to the -2 to hit given by Tower Shields.
My idea is (well, actually, this comes by a friend of mine who was always bothered by this): why not dropping the -2 to hit with piercing weapons only ?
I mean, the Tower Shield was actually made to work exactly in this way... wielding it you have a massive defense but you are not very efficient to make swings with a weapon. But with a piercing weapon you actually thrust, not swing...
Sounds good to me - I like it.
GREAT idea, this should be added.
On another idea.
What do you think about giving it a type of bash damage? Maybe only to a bull rush in which you push them up against a wall/unmovable object?
I'd be in favor of this :]
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Historically, the roman legions ruled the world thanks to a simple yet efficient idea: the combined forces of wall-shields and thrusting weapons (such as the gladii).
In 3.x, this is a suboptimal choice at best, thanks to the -2 to hit given by Tower Shields.
My idea is (well, actually, this comes by a friend of mine who was always bothered by this): why not dropping the -2 to hit with piercing weapons only ?
I mean, the Tower Shield was actually made to work exactly in this way... wielding it you have a massive defense but you are not very efficient to make swings with a weapon. But with a piercing weapon you actually thrust, not swing...
Yes and no...
The difference is that adventurers do not fight in the same way the Romans did. Normally there are 3-6 adventurers with different roles and placed in scattered locations across the battlefield.
The Romans fought with dozens of soldiers in a tight formation. The outer edges of the formation used soldiers holding the shields. They often could not see clearly what was happening around them. They would thrust with weapons straight ahead but to the side or above or below the shield essentially jabbing blindly. Soldiers behind the outer edges used spears to poke and jab as well. The difference being that the enemy was groupped tightly in front of this shield wall making them susceptable to these tactics.
If we break these tactics down to just one man vs one man they fail to produce the same results. In fact now the shield does become a liabity to offense simple because your field of vision is limited, and you can no longer attack in certain directions.
So, while the Romans did use shield walls and thrusting weapons to conquer the ancient world, it was the group tactic combined with the shield wall that worked.
Director of Games
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There are feats out there that give a bonus to fighting as part of a shield wall. I would prefer to let those feats give the "roman combat" style bonuses and leave the tower shield as it is. It does not need to get any better than it already is.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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There are feats out there that give a bonus to fighting as part of a shield wall. I would prefer to let those feats give the "roman combat" style bonuses and leave the tower shield as it is. It does not need to get any better than it already is.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I like seeing you respond to these threads... THANK YOU!
It does show me that you are listening to concerns and not just sitting on an ivory tower.
I know this thread is a bit old but I have to jump in here with one last thought. I honestly have never seen a character use a tower shield. The -2 to attack rolls was just too high.
I think it would get more use if there was an additional feat that could be taken that would remove the -2 to attack, like Improved Tower Shield Proficiency or Tower Ease.
Tower Ease
Prerequisites: Tower Shield Proficiency
You don't take a -2 to attack rolls when using a tower shield
Compare to taking Exotic Armor Proficiency Extreme Shield (RoS) and Shield Specialization (PHBII).
Tower Shield -
+4 Shield bonus
+2 Max Dex
-10 Check Penalty
50% spell failure
Extreme Shield
+4 Shield Bonus
No Max Dex
-4 Check Penalty
15% spell failure
You still have a Max Dex limit of +2, -6 more Check Penalty, and 35% more spell failure. For that you can use the Tower shield for cover. Honestly I still don't think the Tower shield is worth it but I belive this would be a good start.
I know this thread is a bit old but I have to jump in here with one last thought. I honestly have never seen a character use a tower shield. The -2 to attack rolls was just too high.
I think it would get more use if there was an additional feat that could be taken that would remove the -2 to attack, like Improved Tower Shield Proficiency or Tower Ease.
What if your purpose was to hold off the Bad Guys while someone else did the damage? Then look at this:
Tower Shield
Shield Specialization (PHBII)
Active Shield Defense (PHBII)
Shield Ward (PHBII)
Add dwarf for stability, throw in a defender weapon, and wham! Instant Shield Wall!