|
So I've been wondering lately about this useful cantrip. This cantrip that seems far more useful than any other cantrip like it. Before this, it was still a pretty awesome spell. Allows you to look at something, concentrate on it, determine if it is magical and if so, what school of magic it is.
Now it also has the ability to identify magic items with an Appraise check, making the Identify spell quickly useless (as even at level 1 a decent mage can have a +8 Appraise, higher if an Elf or with feats). Pretty awesome, again, but not really that bad.
With the Beta though, it is also now an at-will ability if prepared. This may not be a worry in certain campaigns, but it definitely changes a lot of things in Curse of the Crimson Throne, or other APs based on 3.5. With the original rules, a wizard only had Detect Magic a certain number of times per day, and would usually save the casting for when the group wanted to check out certain items. In the Beta rules, however, there is no reason to ever turn it off when not in battle. A mage still has to stop and concentrate to check things out, but there is no reason why (like my player) shouldn't just keep it on all the time and check out everything they can in magic sight.
This means all those magic traps, hidden magic effects, ESPECIALLY illusions (Illusory Wall is virtually useless now without spells to hide its aura) are easily visible.
Should this spell be changed to a higher level? I think it's incredibly useful for a Cantrip, and can't see spells like Light, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, etc. to be even close to on par with it. It seems like an obvious spell to have for any mage.
This may be better off in the Spell forums as well for the Beta, but as those aren't up yet and this is really about 'how to work with this spell in the APs' I wanted to get some feedback. Has anyone else noticed the difference with this spell, or have any suggestions on how to deal with it?
Creative Director
|
One thing worth keeping in mind (and this probably bears some discussion in the final Pathfinder RPG) is that just because you have detect magic going, you have to be concentrating to detect magic. It's not running all the time; that's something that a higher level spell (arcane sight) does.
If you have a player who insists on concentrating all the time to maintain his detect magic, my suggestion is to treat the character as if he's perpetually distracted. A quick look at the rules for concentration on page 176 of the PH shows that concentration is a standard action, and that means that while concentrating, a character can only do one move equivalent action per round. It also mentions that a lot can break your concentration. There aren't really rules for how one keeps concentrating for hours at a time, but there should be; perhaps an increasingly difficult Will save? Applying penalties to Wisdom-based skill checks (since the concetrator's not as aware of his surroundings) is not a bad idea either.
|
|
I suppose the problem is I'm not sure how best to talk to him about the changes. He's obviously enjoyed the use of it and being able to make Spellcraft or Appraise checks on everything under the sun, so I have to be careful about how to tell him I'm nerfing it. Talking to him about the Concentration penalty is one way to do it, I just need to figure out the best way to phrase it. Do you have a suggestion for the specific mechanical penalty? Not sure if it should be too harsh, and would it be a penalty to Reflex (distracted) or Will (mentally busy)? Or both?
Arcane Sight is a lot better than Detect Magic in many ways though, I did check on that because I thought there were too many overlaps too. Besides the lack of concentration, there's also the ability to tell if a creature has spells or spell-like abilities prepared (or something like that) which seems incredibly useful.
I almost want to suggest that Detect Magic just be made a 1st level spell when the Spells section of the Beta comes up. Is that too harsh? The usefulness of it, both in Identifying items (multiple ones at a time, for free!) and identifying magic auras around them seems so much more useful than ANY of the other 0 level spells. Do any of the other Cantrips really compare?
You can use Appraise to identify a magic item? That doesn't sound like a good idea.
|
|
Part of the Appraise skill includes this ability.
If you are trained in Appraise, you can use it in conjunction with detect magic or identify to determine the properties of a magic item in your possession. The DC of this check is equal to 15 + the item’s caster level. If successful, you determine the item’s properties and command words. You cannot determine the powers of artifacts through the use of this skill. You must be the caster of detect magic to use this skill in this way.
There aren't really rules for how one keeps concentrating for hours at a time, but there should be; perhaps an increasingly difficult Will save? Applying penalties to Wisdom-based skill checks (since the concetrator's not as aware of his surroundings) is not a bad idea either.
Except that the caster doesn't have to concentrate for hours: He can re-start the spell as a standard action, at will. I'm going to agree with the OP that Detect Magic now makes a lot of illusions useless. Perhaps most illusions should just hide their own magic? Detect magic would get a disbelief save. If you make the save, you see the illusion for what it is. If you don't, you see what the illusion wants you to see (i.e. a non-magic wall.)
|
|
It also is much harder to have in place any trap with magical components. Granted, it isn't a spell in place and technically not a magic item, so at most all the caster could tell is 'hey, there's some aura here and it's....evocation based'. Still, it's more warning and is another easy no-fail way to check for magic traps.
I dunno, it isn't a HUGE issue, it just seems like some things will need to be changed. In a world where every wizard or sorcerer or druid or cleric or any caster can cast Detect Magic at will...it seems like spells like Magic Aura and Nondetection would become immeasurably popular.
Personally, I'm still a fan of making Detect Magic a 1st level spell. Is that really bad? Does any other 0-level spell really compare to it anymore? The spell can now, with an appraise check, ID magic items for FREE. This alone should make it on par with Identify, which doesn't require an Appraise check but does require 100 GP and time. The additional ability to read schools and ID magic spells when seen should easily match it to other 1st-levels.
This would solve the problem of it 'always being on', and in truth, I don't think it's that big of a nerf. Might be something to bring up when the Spells section of the playtesting comes up, if enough agree.
Perhaps most illusions should just hide their own magic? Detect magic would get a disbelief save. If you make the save, you see the illusion for what it is. If you don't, you see what the illusion wants you to see (i.e. a non-magic wall.)
Yeah, I thought this is how it should work too. There is a difference between seeing a magic aura and an illusory (something). The illusion fools your senses - including magical sight, like detect magic.
Also, I'd be in favor of removing the mention of detect magic from the appraise skill description. It's not game breaking, but it does drastically increase the power of detect magic.
Peace,
tfad
|
|
Though it does increase the power, I do like the ability to do so. Before, it was suggested in Magic Item Compendium to allow something similar, so I'm used to the idea. I might like it more if the DC was spread out a bit. Something like...current DC gives you the basics, the spell involved in creation, a brief description. A little higher, maybe 5+, gives you all the details, command words, charges, etc.
I dunno. I'm just hoping that the issue, as small as it is, is addressed in the final version. :)
Though it does increase the power....
Yeah, but something has to either go up or down. And you know how players are about things going down! ;)
I think this is another example where changes have had an unexpected knock on effect. It's not game breaking, but it is certainly not intentional and not requested. In summary - the whole reason for having a playtest period.
Peace,
tfad