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I would like to see Charge get a little love like the other maneuvers (technically not a maneuver but should be- just doesn't use CMB).
Improved Charge
Like Charge but Checks the movement of the opponent.
Greater Charge
Charge can be used as a standard action using regular movement, instead of double movement.
Superior Charge
Can Charge around obstacles as long as the last ten feet of the Charge is in a straight line.
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Can't creatures that are restricted to a single action do a charge up to their normal move? It would seem like that'd be something anyone can do, though I can understand why some would think they couldn't, I guess. Bad wording in the book. Doesn't seem like something that's worth a feat though.
The other two look good, what do you mean by 'Checking'?
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Can't creatures that are restricted to a single action do a charge up to their normal move? It would seem like that'd be something anyone can do, though I can understand why some would think they couldn't, I guess. Bad wording in the book. Doesn't seem like something that's worth a feat though.
The other two look good, what do you mean by 'Checking'?
By checking, I mean you stop their movement. They are able to continue with their action except they cannot move. This is great for a readied action, allowing you to intercept movement and stopping them cold.
The primary reason for allowing Charge to be used for a standard action is Readying an action. You cannot ready a Full Round Action. The description, as it reads now, for Charge, you cannot take the standard action version of Charge unless you are required to do so. So it is not voluntary. Again, this would allow Charge to be a readied action. My preference would be to change the description of Charge to eliminate the restriction. The other advantage to making a Charge a Standard Action, is that you would then have your Move Action available. Granted you can't actually move-as you used that in the Charge- but you would be able to do Move Equivalent Actions.
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I second your motion. Lets add some love for the Charge. I love Powerful Charge (+1d8 dmg when charging) and Reckless Charge (+4 Atk, -4AC when charging) (don't recall which books they are from). These feats while not OGL could be good examples of ways to improve charging.
I like those. I don't think I ever saw them.
I would like to see all combat maneuvers really develop well defined Feat Trees, that encourage combat other than standing in place and slugging it out. Something that encourages imagination, movement and ACTION! Fights get so boring now.
I swing my axe. Next round, I swing my axe. Next round I sing my axe. Next round, he's still up! I swing my axe... That gets old real fast.
Charging is now only used to get into a fight. But it could be so much more. It can become a tactical choice as well.
I am in a fight with an orc and need to get to that Mind Flayer fast to keep it from getting to the wizard. But I am not sure the Mind Flayer is going to go to the wizard. So I will ready an action, let this orc try and hit me and if that Mind Flayer goes for the wizard I will accept the off chance the orc will hit me with his attack of opportunity and instead stop that Mind Flayer cold. It has no idea I am behind this wall *tee-hee* so it will be so surprised when I suddenly appear and keep it from that delicious wizard... *tee-hee*
Just for the record- since this fighter keeps going *tee-hee* it is obviously an elf and not a dwarf.
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Quote heard at my table a few times..."There is no Tee-hee-ing in Nuclear War!"
We call the fighter in one of our playtests with powerful and reckless charge the Ping-Pong. His mini is usually moving from one side of the board to the other. He quickly grabbed up dodge and Mobility. (Course he is a dwarf in a lot of armor so you can imagine his AC)
I second your motion. Lets add some love for the Charge. I love Powerful Charge (+1d8 dmg when charging) and Reckless Charge (+4 Atk, -4AC when charging) (don't recall which books they are from). These feats while not OGL could be good examples of ways to improve charging.
More love for charging attacks, yay!
Both of the feats Brutesquad07 mentioned (Powerful Charge, Greater Powerful Charge and Reckless Charge) are out of the Miniatures Handbook.
The book is also home to the Dash Feat(Pathfinder - Fleet Feat). The "Marshal" (4E Warlord), the "Healer" and the "Favored Soul" (divine sorcerer) are also found in this book. I bought it back when I was playing D&D miniatures and despite the rules for minis being badly outdated, the 3.5 player material has kept the book incredibly useful to me.
Greater Powerful Charge(yes, it even has a feat-tree too!), increases the damage die you use as if you were one size larger. (1d6(S) to 1d8(M) to 2d69(L) to 3d6(H) to 4d6(G), etc.) Figured I would post that one up as well since some folks have never seen these, it is also non-OGL being in the Miniatures Handbook.
However, some of these feats(powerful charge) I believe are reprinted in the Ebberon Campaign Setting as well.
I am in favor of Charge being reclassified as a Standard Action with restrictions on movement. Than it can be done as a Readied Action and combined with certain Move Actions. I was going to wait for Action in Combat but Krome brought it up.
For the Charge Tree I would like it to promote continuing the Charge.
Charge - A Standard Action allowing you to movement up to your movement rate and make an attack (+2 to hit, -2AC). You can take a Move action prior to the Charge, but you can only take a 5' step of actual movement. You can take no Move Actions after a Charge.
Improved Charge - BAB +6, as Charge but the target is knocked prone on a successful attack. [EDIT: For Krome, lets also say you can do any movement action prior to the Charge.]
Greater Charge - BAB +12, As Improved Charge, but if you have spare movement, you can also continue your movement through your opponent. This opponent does not get attacks of opportunity.
These need to be checked for balance, but I think it would improve mobility on the battle field. Note you still would need other feats such as Mobility and Spring Attack to really be dangerous. I would like for Greater Charge and Spring Attack to allow you to Charge and then continue the Charge culminated in a second attack (-5 to hit). I also see the conflict with Overrun.
EDIT: Krome you should define the Check. It was a good idea. Kind of like Marked.
EDIT: Krome you should define the Check. It was a good idea. Kind of like Marked.
Good idea.
Preferably a check made out to me with lots and lots of zeroes in it!
I will 'Charge' it, for $00.000000001. Oh wait, I don't have a Full Round Action!
Not very funny, but this is good as I get.
Regarding charging as a standard action/readied action, I would direct your attention to the rules regarding Partial Charges. It's exactly what you're describing, though it is limited to situations where you only have a Standard ACtions (Surprise Rounds/Readied Actions).
The other feat ideas strike me as useful, though. Perhaps something that lets you charge over difficult terrain without losing your Dex Bonus to AC?
I am in favor of Charge being reclassified as a Standard Action with restrictions on movement. Than it can be done as a Readied Action and combined with certain Move Actions. I was going to wait for Action in Combat but Krome brought it up.
For the Charge Tree I would like it to promote continuing the Charge.
I had Greater Charge redundant with Spring Attack. To fix it I suggest the following:
Charge -
Feat; A Standard Action allowing you to move up to your movement rate and make an attack (+2 to hit, -2AC). You must Charge at least 10 feet. You can take a Move action prior to the Charge, but you can only take a 5' step of actual movement. You can take no Move Actions after a Charge.
Improved Charge - Prereq: BAB +4
Feat; As Charge but the target is knocked prone on a successful attack. You may also use any Move action prior to the Charge if it is available.
Greater Charge - Prereq: Spring Attack, Improved Charge & BAB +8
Feat; As Improved Charge. If your opponent is prone and you have a Move action available you may move THROUGH the opponent and make a second Charge at a different opponent with a -5 to hit (total modifiers -3 to hit, -2AC). Neither opponent gets attacks of opportunity.
EDIT: I know Greater Charge will be very contenious. Simply put, I am looking to allow certain feat trees to allow a combination of movement and multiple attacks. I consider the limitation of multiple attacks to Full Round Actions to be a major hinderance in making 3.5 & PfRPG about 'having options'. Actually, all Full Round Actions bother me but I understand its need for Reiterative attacks and reverse compatibility. Maybe it should not be Greater Charge, but Greater Spring Attack, that allows a second attack?