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Okay here is my issue with 3.x If you aren't bashing with a shield, its a +2 to ac and that's it. Now there's a single feat if you aren't a fighter that allows you to increase your defense. That's it, your choice is one feat if you want to be defensive and you aren't a fighter. I don't want much, just one or two feats to enable a sword and boarder who isn't running around smashing people with his shield like captain america.
The fighter right now has it, but no one else :(
My suggestion for the first
Deflect arrows, change it to work with either one hand free, or with a shield others have said this too, but it makes no sense why someone can be quick enough to hit an arrow out of the way, but not quick enough to put a shield in front of him.
This is my suggestion, I want to hear others. I'm not looking for number boosts, I'm looking for actions that anyone wielding a shield (i.e. not fighter only) can do.
... This is my suggestion, I want to hear others. I'm not looking for number boosts, I'm looking for actions that anyone wielding a shield (i.e. not fighter only) can do.
Shield Ally
You may protect an ally with your shield.Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency
You may select one ally at the beginning of your turn to protect. If they are adjacent to you when they are attacked, your protection gives them a +2 bonus to Armor Class.
Body Guard
You may intercept incomming attacks against an ally.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, Shield Ally.
The bonus you provide to your protected ally from the Shield Ally feat increases to +4 and once per round you may switch places during an attack against your protected ally and have the attack target you instead of your protected ally. Switching places is an Immediate Action.
Improved Shield Defense
Your shield improves your armor class while fighting defensively.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: If you are weilding a shield you are not using to attack, you gain a +2 to armor class while fighting defensively and if you have the Combat Expertise you gain a +2 to armor class for each -1 penalty to attack in place of the normal benefits for Combat Expertise.
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... This is my suggestion, I want to hear others. I'm not looking for number boosts, I'm looking for actions that anyone wielding a shield (i.e. not fighter only) can do.
Shield Ally
You may protect an ally with your shield.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency
You may select one ally at the beginning of your turn to protect. If they are adjacent to you when they are attacked and you are using a light, heavy, or tower shield, your protection gives them a +2 shieldbonus to Armor Class.
Special: you may not use a dancing shield nor spells that grant a shield bonus in conjunction with this featBody Guard
You may intercept incomming attacks against an ally.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, Shield Ally.
The bonus you provide to your protected ally from the Shield Ally feat increases to +4 and you may switch places during an attack against your protected ally and have the attack target you instead of your protected ally. Switching places is an Immediate Action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special: you may not use a dancing shield nor spells that grant a shield bonus in conjunction with this featImproved Shield Defense
Your shield improves your armor class while fighting defensively.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: If you are weilding a shield you are not using to attack, you gain a +2 to armor class while fighting defensively and if you have the Combat Expertise you gain a +2 to armor class for each -1 penalty to attack in place of the normal benefits for Combat Expertise.
Special: you may not use a dancing shield nor spells that grant a shield bonus in conjunction with this feat
You need to have the bolded otherwise rules lawyers will say the feat is pointless since you provoked an AoO by leaving a threatened area. I like these, I don't think the last one will be needed if Jason listens to those calling for a change to CE that doubles it if using a shield. But the first two I can see as very good shieldy feats.
We have been discussing this in another thread HERE.
I like your Feat ideas Eric Tillemans, however I'm pretty sure they are too powerful and lack any sort of prerequisite at all. I'm not certain if you've read my thread, but it seems as though you had the same ideas, just 2-3 times more powerful. I've made suggestions bolded below. I do not disagree with Lastknightleft's suggestions, but will add my own.
Shield Ally
You may protect an ally with your shield.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, +1 BAB
You may select one ally at the beginning of your turn to protect. If they are adjacent to you when they are attacked, your protection gives them a +2 bonus to Armor Class.Body Guard
You may intercept incomming attacks against an ally.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, Shield Ally, +4 BAB
The bonus you provide to your protected ally from the Shield Ally feat increases to +2 ...REMOVE:(This should be a seperate Feat) and once per round you may switch places during an attack against your protected ally and have the attack target you instead of your protected ally. Switching places is an Immediate Action.
Improved Shield Defense
Your shield improves your armor class while fighting defensively.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: If you are wielding a shield you are not using to attack, you gain a +2 to armor class while fighting defensively (+4 while using Total Defense).If you have the Combat Expertise you gain a +2 to armor class for each -1 penalty to attack in place of the normal benefits for Combat Expertise. This benefit cannot be used while Fighting Defesively or during Total Defense.
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We have been discussing this in another thread HERE.
I like your Feat ideas Eric Tillemans, however I'm pretty sure they are too powerful and lack any sort of prerequisite at all. I'm not certain if you've read my thread, but it seems as though you had the same ideas, just 2-3 times more powerful. I've made suggestions bolded below. I do not disagree with Lastknightleft's suggestions, but will add my own.
Shield Ally
You may protect an ally with your shield.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, +1 BAB
You may select one ally at the beginning of your turn to protect. If they are adjacent to you when they are attacked, your protection gives them a +2 bonus to Armor Class.Body Guard
You may intercept incomming attacks against an ally.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, Shield Ally, +4 BAB
The bonus you provide to your protected ally from the Shield Ally feat is now equal to your shield bonus ...REMOVE:(This should be a seperate Feat) and once per round you may switch places during an attack against your protected ally and have the attack target you instead of your protected ally. Switching places is an Immediate Action.
I disagree here, if anything the only thing that needs to be raised is the BAB requisite, maybe to a +5, and that you can only do it for melee attacks. Keep in mind in order for this to work you have to be adjacent and therefor a target for every AoE spell in the game. I do however think there is cause for changing the wording from a solid bonus to the change I made above. This means if you've taken no other feats to improve your shield defense then it would be two, but if they've actually invested in feats to improve thier shield bonus they gain the benefit.
Improved Shield Defense
Your shield improves your armor class while fighting defensively.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: If you are wielding a shield you are not using to attack, you gain a +2 to armor class while fighting defensively (+4 while using Total Defense).If you have the Combat Expertise you gain a +2 to armor class for each -1 penalty to attack in place of the normal benefits for Combat Expertise. This benefit cannot be used while Fighting Defesively or during Total Defense.
um you don't need your caveat about total defense you can't use CE when you aren't attacking total defense only works when you aren't attacking, so they can't be used together anyways. And if you are using it in conjunction with fighting defensively you are taking a rather large negative to hit. Think about it a -4 for a +2 to ac, plus an additional -1 per point of combat expertise. You have to be taking at least a -6 in order for it to even out to a -1 to -1 and if you are getting better than -1 to -1 you are taking at least a -7 to your defense. So i disagree with your "fix" here.
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... This is my suggestion, I want to hear others. I'm not looking for number boosts, I'm looking for actions that anyone wielding a shield (i.e. not fighter only) can do.Shield Ally
You may protect an ally with your shield.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency
You may select one ally at the beginning of your turn to protect. If they are adjacent to you when they are attacked and you are using a light, heavy, or tower shield, your protection gives them a +2 shieldbonus to their Armor Class.
Special: you may not use a dancing shield nor spells that grant a shield bonus in conjunction with this featBody Guard
You may intercept incomming attacks against an ally.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, Shield Ally. BAB +5
The bonus you provide to your protected ally from the Shield Ally feat equals your shield bonus and you may switch places during a melee attack against your protected ally and have the attack target you instead of your protected ally. Switching places is an Immediate Action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special: you may not use a dancing shield nor spells that grant a shield bonus in conjunction with this featImproved Shield Defense
Your shield improves your armor class while fighting defensively.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: If you are weilding a shield you are not using to attack, you gain a +2 to armor class while fighting defensively and if you have the Combat Expertise you gain a +2 to armor class for each -1 penalty to attack in place of the normal benefits for Combat Expertise.
Special: you may not use a dancing shield nor spells that grant a shield bonus in conjunction with this feat
Just wanted to update the feats to match discussion.
... Just wanted to update the feats to match discussion.
Nice upgrades to my amateur wording. I think the changes to the Shield Ally and Body Guard AC bonuses work ok, but I did intend for the bonus to be +2 and +4 and be untyped. I'm ok with the +2(or +4) bonus stacking with a shield spell or stacking with another character using a shield. (Note: I hate animated shields, so putting in a special provision to not allow them is a good thing)
However, I did miss something I'd like added which changes the wording of Shield Ally, it should read: "...and you are weilding a light, heavy, or tower shield which you are not attacking with,..."
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... This is my suggestion, I want to hear others. I'm not looking for number boosts, I'm looking for actions that anyone wielding a shield (i.e. not fighter only) can do.Shield Ally
You may protect an ally with your shield.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency
You may select one ally at the beginning of your turn to protect. If they are adjacent to you when they are attacked and you are using a light, heavy, or tower shield you are not using to shield bash, your protection gives them a +2 shield bonus to their Armor Class.
Special: you may not use a dancing shield nor spells that grant a shield bonus in conjunction with this featBody Guard
You may intercept incomming attacks against an ally.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, Shield Ally. BAB +5
The bonus you provide to your protected ally from the Shield Ally feat equals your shield bonus and you may switch places during a melee attack against your protected ally and have the attack target you instead of your protected ally. Switching places is an Immediate Action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special: you may not use a dancing shield nor spells that grant a shield bonus in conjunction with this featImproved Shield Defense
Your shield improves your armor class while fighting defensively.
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: If you are weilding a light, heavy, or tower shield you are not using to shield bash, you gain a +2 to armor class while fighting defensively and if you have the Combat Expertise you gain a +2 to armor class for each -1 penalty to attack in place of the normal benefits for Combat Expertise.
Special: you may not use a dancing shield nor spells that grant a shield bonus in conjunction with this feat
fixed, and while I like your feats I disagree with the idea that it stacks with other shields, what happens when two fighters with this feat stand adjacent to one another, its a cheap way to double your shield bonus right away.
Actually that does create cool tandem fighting situations like the fighters in 300, I don't know though because a caster allready has 8-billion spells to increase AC, miss chance, illusions etc. I think allowing this to stack with all of them is kinda teh suck.
fixed, and while I like your feats I disagree with the idea that it stacks with other shields, what happens when two fighters with this feat stand adjacent to one another, its a cheap way to double your shield bonus right away.
Actually that does create cool tandem fighting situations like the fighters in 300, I don't know though because a caster allready has 8-billion spells to increase AC, miss chance, illusions etc. I think allowing this to stack with all of them is kinda teh suck.
I limited the bonus to +2/+4 precisely because I was going to allow it to stack. If the full shield bonus is confered then I'd say stacking should not be allowed.
One possible problem with allowing stacking is that someone could get a bunch of disposable minions and just have them stand around them for the bonus AC.
I'm ok with someone doing that in my game so I don't see it as a problem.
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Not true, however there are several discussions on other boards, and um, no one seems to hate any of the ideas so it isn't dragging in all the blood and guts of some of the other boards. I love all the ideas for shields.
Combat Expertise bonus doubling with shield use, Increase AC value of a shield, give Shield bonus to touch Ac, give Shield bonus to Reflex Saves, Give Shield bonus to ally or allies, give Shield user unlimited power (uh...ok strike that one), give shield user an ability to stop opponents from moving through their territory and treating them like chumps...
These are all good ideas.
How about a feat that lets you ride your shield like a snow board over the corpses of your fallen foes? I would take it...course I am sick like that.
Wow, I guess not to many people are concerned for non-fighters having defensive shield feats.
Rest assured there is at least SEVEN of us fighting the good fight for Shield Feats... for everyone. All of the concepts Brutesquad and myself like are geared for a Paladin more than anything. Making them all Fighter only would just be adding another orc in the congo line to hump his dead body. Yea, Im'm sick like that too!
I think at this point any love for shield feats is being met with alot of enthusiasm, for all classes...orc humping aside.
and monks, and barbarians, and buggerers...im mean er ...yeah paladins