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I'm reposting this idea from the Alpha threads, on which someone (I cannot remember who, though) suggested a really great idea for implementing synergy bonuses into PF without any tables or additional skill synergy lists. If I'm not completely wrong, this is also how the skill synergy system works in 'A Game of Thrones D20', by the way.
The system is really simple: whenever you're rolling a skill check, if you have 5 ranks in another skill you may describe how that skill could be helpful in the situation to get an "automatic" (i.e. you don't roll against DC 10) +2 bonus to your check total -- if the DM approves. You can use two "supplementary" skills max. in each skill check.
Example 1: Your character is involved in a negoation with the local Duke, and he wishes to use his Diplomacy to convince the duke to help the party. You might describe how your PC uses his Knowledge (History) to bring out embarrasing or "inspiring" facts about the duke's family history.
Example 2: Your character is trying to shake pursuing monsters from his trail in the wilderness. You could, for example, describe your PC using his Knowledge (Nature) and/or Survival to "boost" his Stealth.
Example 3: Your character is trying to climb a wall in a dungeon. You might describe how your Knowledge (Dungeoneering) and Acrobatics help your character in this situation.
In a sense, this is actually a bit like how 'Skill Challenges' work in 4E -- you give the players a chance for creative input, which should, in my opinion, encourage and emphasize storytelling and role-playing through a mechanical "lure" (i.e. the bonus(es) to the skill check). Occasionally this might even lead to player input inspiring future adventure/plot hooks.
I've playtested this system in my group, and everyone is really excited about it, because it is "loose" enough that you can be creative with your suggestions, and it also sort of "enforces" character immersion in a positive way.
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What if there were different degrees of success, like a regular skill check?
DC10 = +2 synergy bonus to the second skill check (the "real" one)
DC15 = +4
DC20 = +6
DC25 = +8, etc., up to your max ranks in the helping skill (7 ranks in Knowledge (nobility) could never give you more than a +7 synergy bonus, achieved with a successful Knowledge (nobility) skill check of DC25.)
Actually, this could work for Aid Another as well. I think of Synergy as "Aid Self." If this seems game-breaking, maybe only Knowledge and Profession scale like this, making them more attractive (but that would also make the system more complicated by treating some skills differently). Me? I'd prefer it work for all skills and up the DC if you don't want it to happen so often, like start with DC15 instead of DC10.
[I have been a big advocate of a system like the OP describes ever since the Alphas, but I believe one of the original proposers was somebody named Lordzack.]
RPG Superstar 2013
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I like the OP plan. Selling the synergy to the DM rewards versatile and creative characters. Also, it might actually be helpful in an encounter. If I take the first example and request Knowledge (Nobility) help me reveal embarrassing dirt to get an edge, maybe the DM ruling against the synergy can help me sniff the duke out as an imposter, or maybe the DM helps me avoid blowing my Diplomacy check by throwing a touchy past in his face.
I like this plan a lot.
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i love the idea
i try to do sometimes in my game
specially if thecharacters actively try to do something like this.
but i hate the name skill challenge (as anything related to 4E)
also the idea appearedbefore in other supplements just as "Stunts" which i like better
I like the OP plan. Selling the synergy to the DM rewards versatile and creative characters. Also, it might actually be helpful in an encounter. If I take the first example and request Knowledge (Nobility) help me reveal embarrassing dirt to get an edge, maybe the DM ruling against the synergy can help me sniff the duke out as an imposter, or maybe the DM helps me avoid blowing my Diplomacy check by throwing a touchy past in his face.
I like this plan a lot.
that stunt might backfire in which the noble decides never never to deal with the PC :P so sending their negotiations with the noble moot
one must thread lightly where they step
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I like the OP plan. Selling the synergy to the DM rewards versatile and creative characters. Also, it might actually be helpful in an encounter. If I take the first example and request Knowledge (Nobility) help me reveal embarrassing dirt to get an edge, maybe the DM ruling against the synergy can help me sniff the duke out as an imposter, or maybe the DM helps me avoid blowing my Diplomacy check by throwing a touchy past in his face.
I like this plan a lot.
I concur and this is one of my biggest issues with the current Pathfinder rule set.
A simple, DM discretionary / player-initiated / flat modifier for a using a related skill would be awesome. In some case, as explained on other posts, this could result in a (-) modifier (if the Duke doesn't take kindly to being blackmailed or the player guesses incorrectly on what will "help"), should be quick if the DMs on top of his/her game. We can never have enough reasons to reward ingenuity in players.
As a matter of fact, I like it A LOT and would like to see similar bonuses added (as guidelines) for the combat "shocking move" modifiers. Diving off the table to head but the enemy in a bar fight, "Ok.. take the -'s to hit but no AoO as they're too shocked at your surprising move to react quickly.
Magic Item synergy - I read in some 3rd party publication about "regalia" or Magic Items that add powers when combined with other magic items. Cloak & Boots of Elvenkind worn in conjunction, flaming and cold weapons used in two-weapon fighting giving bonus damage if both hit, etc... I just thought it was awesome!!
This is an interesting idea. I like that it would re-inforce some of the RP as well, by allowing for knowledges to provide more flavor to the story than just an excuse for the dm to tell you things you have not figured out on your own. It gets even better when you start to consider the possiblities this system has when you take a proffession as well.
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I like the OP plan. Selling the synergy to the DM rewards versatile and creative characters. Also, it might actually be helpful in an encounter. If I take the first example and request Knowledge (Nobility) help me reveal embarrassing dirt to get an edge, maybe the DM ruling against the synergy can help me sniff the duke out as an imposter, or maybe the DM helps me avoid blowing my Diplomacy check by throwing a touchy past in his face.
I like this plan a lot.
I concur and this is one of my biggest issues with the current Pathfinder rule set.
A simple, DM discretionary / player-initiated / flat modifier for a using a related skill would be awesome. In some case, as explained on other posts, this could result in a (-) modifier (if the Duke doesn't take kindly to being blackmailed or the player guesses incorrectly on what will "help"), should be quick if the DMs on top of his/her game. We can never have enough reasons to reward ingenuity in players.
As a matter of fact, I like it A LOT and would like to see similar bonuses added (as guidelines) for the combat "shocking move" modifiers. Diving off the table to head but the enemy in a bar fight, "Ok.. take the -'s to hit but no AoO as they're too shocked at your surprising move to react quickly.
Magic Item synergy - I read in some 3rd party publication about "regalia" or Magic Items that add powers when combined with other magic items. Cloak & Boots of Elvenkind worn in conjunction, flaming and cold weapons used in two-weapon fighting giving bonus damage if both hit, etc... I just thought it was awesome!!
Me again, even mixing them all into a DM guideline for player creativity would work for me. Just something for the DM to use without disrupting game balance:
PC - Creative Idea GuidelinesIngenious = +5 synergy (disguise self to appear as a vampire, before using the intimidate skill)
Good or routine = +2 synergy (Going prone w/ a rolling body block on an unarmed trip attempt or Know Arcana w/ an appraise check to identify)
Inconsequential = 0 (Know arcana w/ a survival check to intimidate?)
Poor = -2 (jumping from a 3 story building in order to grapple a guard, w/ out feather fall or other assistance)
Stupid = -5 (Use know-local in blackmailing the local assassins guild via a bluff check)
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I'm concerned there'd be a lot of stupid.
Ever notice that a gamer is smarter than average, whioe a group of gamers gets dumber, and kind of lazy? I've enevr understood that, but it's empirical!
Gamers are like the opposite of cranium rats!
Teaching through negative consequenses for stupidity worked for my parents, well, almost worked....
I agree but even stupidly heroic acts would go along way in advancing the storyline (I am all about story lines). I wouldn't want to discourage it and that's why we leave it as a DM discretionary guide. Maybe a DM warning... of "Are you sure?" would handle those until we're all used to what's smart and what's not....|
RPG Superstar 2013
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If you've DMed long, you know good and well that "are you sure" doesn't strike the players as any kind of advice.
It's almost like the Darwin Awards - the ratios of alcohol and gasoline being featured among Darwin award winners (other favorites: firearms and the phrase "watch this!") has got to be comically equal to the association between dead PCs and DMs asking the phrase "are you sure?"
Other side of the coin: I am all for stupid heroics. There's a difference between "jackass" PCs and those guys who do something suicidal cause they have to to save the children.
I'm playing one of those guys right now in Deadlands. It's a blast.
Gamers are like the opposite of cranium rats!
Hey - would that make us "rectum rats"?