Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I have often wondered about the gaming ramifications of a lost limb. In my Age of Worms campaign, we had a PC stick his hand into the Sphere of Annihilation, disintegrating his hand. In addition to the hit point damage, our DM ruled that he would lose 2 points of Dexterity going forward.
We are unaware of any game mechanics to support loss of limb, but I may be mistaken. Are there mechanics to cover the loss of a limb somewhere, and if so, can you point me in the right direction?
If not, what rules have you used for this situation? To me, there should be differing rules based on the limb lost:
- Loss of an arm or hand implies a loss to Dexterity, but it should also impact any dex-related feats such as Two Weapon Fighting, non-DEX based skills such as Swim and Climb, and basic combat skills such as archery.
- Loss of a leg or arm seems to also require a Dexterity penalty, but also would include a reduction in base speed, combat abilities requiring balance, and certain skills and feats.
How have you handled these situation in the past? How much of a penalty would you deem appropriate based on each type of lost limb?
Thanks in advance for your help!
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In my Age of Worms campaign, we had a PC stick his hand into the Sphere of Annihilation, disintegrating his hand. In addition to the hit point damage, our DM ruled that he would lose 2 points of Dexterity going forward.
*snip*
If not, what rules have you used for this situation? To me, there should be differing rules based on the limb lost:
- Loss of an arm or hand implies a loss to Dexterity, but it should also impact any dex-related feats such as Two Weapon Fighting, non-DEX based skills such as Swim and Climb, and basic combat skills such as archery.
- Loss of a leg or arm seems to also require a Dexterity penalty, but also would include a reduction in base speed, combat abilities requiring balance, and certain skills and feats.
How have you handled these situation in the past? How much of a penalty would you deem appropriate based on each type of lost limb?
Thanks in advance for your help!
A Dex penalty is certainly a good option, and -2 sounds fair, but if you lose a hand Two-Handed Fighting should be unusable without a workable prosthetic. Swim and Climb should take a big hit, I think, because both rely a great deal on hands for locomotion. Archery is not out of the question, but again, a prosthetic would probably have to come into play at some point.
When someone today loses a leg, they are either confined to a wheelchair, or more often, are given permanent crutches, reducing their speed, in game terms perhaps, to ten feet per round at best. Monks take a big hit from this one, since kicking is one of their more effective attacks. Two Handed Fighting can be canceled here too, as the Balance skill would take upwards of a -6 or -8 penalty due to the awkwardness of standing without dual support.
Overall, a -2 penalty to Dex would be a kindness, and the extent of the decrease should be determined by the injury.
When someone today loses a leg, they are either confined to a wheelchair, or more often, are given permanent crutches, reducing their speed, in game terms perhaps, to ten feet per round at best. Monks take a big hit from this one, since kicking is one of their more effective attacks. Two Handed Fighting can be canceled here too, as the Balance skill would take upwards of a -6 or -8 penalty due to the awkwardness of standing without dual support.
I don't know about all that... What about peg-legs? While I agree there would probably be some penalties incurred for using such a device, I don't feel they should be as severe as all that. I actually have a cousin who lost her leg in a motorcycle accident several years back, and she was fitted with a prosthetic leg. She gets around pretty darn well with it too. Granted, a primative peg compared to a hard plastic prosthetic is probably going to lose out in the performance department, but what a wonderful opportunity to introduce magical artifical limbs into a campaign!
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Thank you for the comments/suggestions!
I love the magic prosthetic idea! A +2 Vorpal Hook for a character without a hand just sounds cool. And peglegs are pretty common for those who lose feet/legs - especially in a pirate-based campaign.
I'm still looking for in-game crunch to apply to characters who lose limbs, though. Any ideas for how statistics/skills/feats/abilities would be impacted through the loss of a limb?
Also, while we're at it, what adjustments should be made for a character who loses an eye? I'm guessing Search and Spot would be impacted, as would Ranged attacks due to a lack of depth perception, but I'm not sure as to the severity of the penalty to apply.
Any suggestions are appreciated!
This issue was addressed directly in 2nd Edition -I believe in the Complete Fighter's Handbook. The mechanics should still apply in a 3.5 ruleset. There is also an in-module discussion of it in Dragon Mountain, since there are lots of severing traps in that classic...
I remember when the 2E Drow of the Underdark came out and discussed drow artificial limbs. There was this great picture of a drow female reveling in the power of her shiny new metal arm. Of course, after that, everyone was clamboring to get a limb hacked off so they could get a drow prosthetic!
Fleece
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I personally don't think that you should impose a penalty to dexterity directly, as dexterity also affects your ability to dodge, which I believe losing a hand doesn't actually impact. Instead, I would suggest to just impose some penalties on anything he might need two hands for.
Here's a question: Did he lose his off hand or his main hand?
Not exactly loss of limb, but mechanically similar situation. I had a character with a crippled leg once. What we worked out to adjudicate this: She had the Slow trait, so her base speed was cut in half making her base speed 15 ft. As well, she had a special leg brace made to make it so that she could stand without a crutch, freeing up her hands for spellcasting.
A dex penalty seems too much to me. For a lost leg, dropping the speed and requiring a crutch until a prosthetic is acquired seems sufficient penalty. With a prosthetic I would make it a feat to be able to gain back your speed. I think that represents the time and effort spent well. As far as a hand, access to things requiring two hands, like two-weapon fighting, would be gone until a prosthetic was gained. And there would be pretty stiff penalties for things like disable device and sleight of hand. But a dex penalty seems too much here as well. Situational negatives on dex checks, sure, but not a penalty. As far as losing an eye, I'd probably just put it at a -2 or at most -4 on perception and ranged attacks. You can still see, just not as well.
That's my take on it anyways.
Kindness would have been killing the character off,
I don't know. I like having the option of those rules being pulled out to enrich the experience. I wound up severely hurting my barbarian's effectiveness in a home campaign after she had to cut her own arm off to save a loved one, but it was ultimately more satisfying for me to actually have a real sacrifice to make. I still feel like a "big damn hero" when I play her. ;)
Interesting question... I'll have to see how this turns out.
*goes into stalk mode*
An out-of-print product called the Book of Distinctions and Drawback might help with guidance. The whole thing is OGC and fairly easy to integrate into a game. The whole system is based around gaining/spending points for various character tweaks, but the specifics of an impairment can just be lifted out as needed. For the hand injury, it has:
IMPAIRED HANDS
[ Primary Flaw ]
Your character has suffered some form of damage to one or both of his hands.
[3 Pts.] Injured/Missing Fingers: Due to stiff or missing fingers, your character suffers a -2 circumstance penalty to all Climb, Craft, Disable Device, and Sleight-of-Hand checks; at the DM’s discretion, certain Perform checks (particularly those involving stringed or woodwind instruments) may also be affected.
[6 Pts.] One-Handed: Your character’s off hand was completely severed from his wrist, leaving him with nothing but a rounded and useless stump. This flaw has a variety of effects:
- Your character cannot wield a weapon in his off-hand, nor use any shield with that hand, save a buckler which can be strapped to his forearm;
- Your character may not wear rings or bracelets on his off hand. Magical items in the form of gloves or gauntlets may not be used if both must be worn to achieve the magical effect;
- Your character suffers a -2 circumstance penalty to all Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Disguise, and Sleight-of-Hand checks (and, at the DM’s discretion, certain Perform checks); and
- Your character may not use ordinary bows, although he may load and fire crossbows as per normal.
- Your character suffers a -1 penalty to all grapple checks.
Special: Injured/Missing Fingers is worth 1 bonus Flaw Point to arcane spellcasters, as it causes a 10% chance of failure to any spell with a somatic (gesture) component. One-Handed is worth 2 bonus Flaw Points to an arcane spellcaster, as it causes a 20% chance of failure to any spell with a somatic component. These percentile chances of failure are rolled by the DM.
Special: The DM may see fit to assign penalties to actions not described here if the lack of an off-hand could be reasonably determined to hinder those actions.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I personally don't think that you should impose a penalty to dexterity directly, as dexterity also affects your ability to dodge, which I believe losing a hand doesn't actually impact. Instead, I would suggest to just impose some penalties on anything he might need two hands for.
Here's a question: Did he lose his off hand or his main hand?
He lost his main hand. He is a Rogue and thought the sphere was some kind of case around treasure, so he reached in to grab it. Ooops!
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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An out-of-print product called the Book of Distinctions and Drawback might help with guidance. The whole thing is OGC and fairly easy to integrate into a game. The whole system is based around gaining/spending points for various character tweaks, but the specifics of an impairment can just be lifted out as needed.
erian_7, this is awesome! Is there a similar flaw for missing foot/leg and/or eye?
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This book (The Book of Distinctions and Drawbacks) is available for sale as a PDF download at DrivethruRPG for $5.95. There is also a version for Modern games as well...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
This book (The Book of Distinctions and Drawbacks) is available for sale as a PDF download at DrivethruRPG for $5.95. There is also a version for Modern games as well...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
Ah, good to see it's still available somewhere. I've had this product since it first came out and have found it infinitely useful in customizing characters/NPCs. It can get out of hand if the DM and player's don't keep a mind to "realistic" vs. "taking some random non-relevant penalties to optimize" but that can be true of most subsystems I think. This one got a bad rap a while back when Cryptosnark Games (the author/publisher) went under unannounced but left their website up. Folks were sending money to the site and getting no reply...or refund. I actually just checked and the site is still up so a warning to folks interested. Do not buy from that site! If you want any of the products, find them at DriveThru or other such sites. Summary, great product, very bad business practice.
As for the missing leg question, there is an option for that as well. It's not perfect (I'd reduce crawl speed to 5' as a Move action, for instance), but is a good starting point. And as a note, I've always liked options like this because they lend the game another layer of "realism" (and make spells like regeneration actually useful) but if taken too far such can spoil a game. Make sure both DM and players are on board with such to avoid game implosion...
IMPAIRED MOVEMENT
[ Primary Flaw ]
Your character suffers from a physical condition that restricts his ability to move. The nature of this condition is such that no magical power may aid or reverse it, short of multiple Wish spells.
[2 Pts.] Limp: Your character’s base Speed is reduced by 10 feet.
[4 Pts.] Serious Limp: Your character’s base Speed is reduced by 10 feet. He suffers an inherent -2 penalty to Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks.
[8 Pts.] Hobbled: Your character cannot run or charge. His base Speed is reduced by 10 feet. He suffers an inherent -1 penalty to Armor Class and a -4 penalty to Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks.
[12 Pts.] Paraplegic: Your character is paraplegic. He has lost all use of his legs and must rely upon a palanquin, a riding beast, or some other conveyance. If removed from such a device, he may move only by crawling while prone, at a rate of 10 feet per round. At all times, he loses his Dex bonus to AC, suffers an intrinsic -2 penalty to Armor Class, grants attackers a +2 bonus to attack rolls, and automatically fails Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks.
Limitation: This flaw, in its Paraplegic form, is incompatible with any feat or class ability that the DM determines to require bipedal movement. Paraplegism is also incompatible with the Inflexible flaw (page 17).
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Check out Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e for ideas. Limb loss is common for those choose violence as a way of solving problems. One PC we had was a 2H fighter (type) and after loosing a hand ended up being a 1H fighter with a puppet on the stump of the lost hand. The puppet didn't really help, but he could entertain children when not swinging his sword.
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What about if someone loses a leg or both of their legs in combat? What penalties would you apply until the PC can learn how to live with it?
Immediate: DC 20 Fort save or unconscious. Success, 2 points of Str, Dex, and Con damage per leg lost. 2d6 bleed if not cauterized (DC 20 Heal). -4 penalty on all d20 rolls per limb, 1/2 speed per limb.
Short-Term: DC 20 Fort save (may use Heal skill in place) each week or one point of damage becomes drain (roll 1d3 randomly). If no long-term care, 50% chance the wound becomes gangrenous (1d3 days, DC 18, 1d6 Con). -2 penalty on all d20 rolls, -10ft. speed per limb with assistance, 5ft. base speed without.
Long-Term: After 1d4 months of training (at least 4 hours each day) the character adjusts to their new circumstances. With assistance, the character has a -2 penalty on all Str-, Dex-, and Con-based checks, -5ft. speed per limb. Otherwise -2 on all d20 rolls, 5ft. base speed.
No long-term combat penalties, as the character can learn to gain new advantages that balance out their limitations (ie. reduced AC for difficulty moving but increased AC for smaller size).
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I have often wondered about the gaming ramifications of a lost limb. In my Age of Worms campaign, we had a PC stick his hand into the Sphere of Annihilation, disintegrating his hand. In addition to the hit point damage, our DM ruled that he would lose 2 points of Dexterity going forward.
I know this is a four year old post, but I must say, this DM was exceedingly lenient!
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I have often wondered about the gaming ramifications of a lost limb. In my Age of Worms campaign, we had a PC stick his hand into the Sphere of Annihilation, disintegrating his hand. In addition to the hit point damage, our DM ruled that he would lose 2 points of Dexterity going forward.I know this is a four year old post, but I must say, this DM was exceedingly lenient!
I know, eh? A character of my brother once poked the Tomb of Horrors sphere with a stick, and I made him roll a saving throw to avoid the character getting pulled in and disintegrated along with!