| FatR |
I still disagree with you, of course. I feel that, if Batman is "far too mundane" for you, then maybe a Superfriends game would be better for you than D&D.
Don't you just berated me highly and mightily for "telling others how to play"? As about Batman, have you failed to notice, that I used him as a best-known example of a character, who is supposed to be mundane in theory, but in practice many of his versions are anything but (actually flying, blocking bullets, moving so fast that normal human's eyes can't follow, taking punches from some the most overpowered and godlike villains in the galaxy without being instantly reduced to bloody pulp, being on the same team as Superman and Flash, yet actually contributing in combat - all of that even before touching comics, where, as I heard, characters usually are stronger, than in animated or film versions).
From what I understand of your ranting, fighters must fly at will, be immune to everything but kryptonite, and should be full casters, with time stop and gate, and not just personal buffs/debuffs/combat-appropriate powers.
Strawman aside, yes good high-level fighters in DnD already have either full casting progression, or, at least, combination of magic/psionics/martial powers that allows them to fly, to teleport short distances and to have a list of mandatory immunities or some other ways to resist instant takeouts. Poor fighters, such as actual straight members of the "fighter" class are forced to cover these staples by items (that shoots a huge, bleeding hole in their WBL, which already isn't sufficient to catch up with level-appropriate monsters) or depend on generosity of party's spellcasters. While the latter is usually provided, because hey, most people play in DnD with a group of friends, it cannot cover some staples of high-level combat, such as teleporting out of things that immobilize/trap you and creates dependence on massive buffing, that seems to annoy most people and makes party as a whole more vulnerable to dispelling. More importantly, it makes primary casters absolutely necessary in party above low levels. If don't have either arcanist or divine guy, you potentially have problems, if you have none of them, you're in for a lot of pain and TPKs. Is such dependency a good thing? No. Is the dependency mutual? No, particularly not now, when PBeta stripped core meleers of potential to one-shot enemies they can charge and ability to control battlefield somewhat. What must be done to make fighters good, if Pathfinder is supposed to work with 3.5E material? They must be held to the standard above and importance of buffing in general must be reduced in favor of inherent class abilities.
Is that more or less what you're getting at? I'm not sure; I have yet to see constructive rules suggestions from you anywhere on these boards.
Maybe that's the problem with your sight.
| Kirth Gersen |
Back on-topic a bit, here's something I will concede: fighters should get Use Magic Device as a class skill (and should probably get 4 skill points/level). What competent soldier can't use the military tools of his day? A mid-level fighter unable to use a wand (a "gun"), or a crystal ball, really isn't worth his salt. That doesn't mean the fighter needs to be capable of crafting these items himself, but he should for sure be able to use them.
| Kyrinn S. Eis |
Only if those were part of the military gear (kit) s/he was trained with, or the enemy was using.
Traditional muscle-powered armies with only specialised (Wiz or Src) magic output would likely be just as clueless about a wand or c-ball as a commoner who has only heard of such things.
A crossbow, if witnessed in use, is easy-enough to learn to use (reducing the -4 penalty over time), but a wand? I cannot imagine that unless the trooper devoted SPs toward the UMD skill that they would even know what sort it was (if that it was even 'magical').
Pistols, muskets (rifles), are a step removed from the crossbow if only due to the multiple steps and needs for measurement required to operate them. However, once shown (or with a god Int mod.), even very low-tech cultures soon grasp the procedure and put it to good use.
Exposure to the correct steps in order seems to be all that tech needs.
I'm not at all certain that magic items follow the same logic.
| Zombieneighbours |
This thread is a prefect example why I was never a big fan of including firearms in Golarion. Guns are cool in D&D style games; but the campaign setting has to be one that's built from the ground up to include them. We wanted Golarion to feel more like classic D&D, Robert E Howard stories, ancient Rome, and basically a world that WASN'T big on firearms. But at the same point we wanted to include elements that would allow for anyone to play their favored form of the game. So we put firearms in.
Of course... this is a case where a little bit of something annoys those who don't like it, while a little bit of something is nowhere near enough to satisfy those who DO like it. I'm not completely happy with the way firearms have been handled in Golarion so far, since they do little more than taunt and tease. Were I doing this all over again, I'd probably cut them out of the campaign entirely, to be honest.
In any event, firearms will, I suspect, be downplayed in future products. If folk REALLY want them to play a bigger part, we'll be listening, but I suspect that the best solution is to let them lie fallow and let GMs who want to enhance the presence of firearms in their own games do so as they will.
I personally really liked the presence of guns, i hope you wont let them me played down to much.
Also, i liked that you used an exploding dice mechanic, that was cool.
| Kirth Gersen |
Exposure to the correct steps in order seems to be all that tech needs. I'm not at all certain that magic items follow the same logic.
Which is exactly why skill ranks are needed; many or even most fighters still wouldn't be trained in it, unless they assign ranks to it. Making it a class skill just gives them the +3 boost they need to overcome a (typically) low Cha score.
| Kyrinn S. Eis |
One of the spells from KQ 7-
Momentary Reload
Transmutation
Level: Brd 3, Clr 4, Rgr 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature/level, no two of
which can be more than 30 ft. apart.
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fort negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The transmuted creature is able to
reload a handheld projectile weapon as
a swift action, regardless of the normal
loading time. If reloading the weapon
would normally provoke an attack of
opportunity, it still does so.
The spell does not grant the affected
targets additional attacks, but those
with sufficient base attack bonus or feat
that allows additional attacks can make
any normally allowed additional attack
after reloading.
This spell affects the ability to reload
crossbows, firearms, and similar weapons.
The affected creature must have
the available ammunition to load the
weapon and be able to reach it under
normal circumstances.