My pardon if this has been floated already, but i could not find a similar thread in my searches. Please point me to them, if they exist...
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Ever since i started running RotR, i have wondered if there was Sin Magic, what about the opposite? and what would you call it?
I am using a working storytelling background that there were 'good' runelords, but that they might have gone into hiding or something. still mulling.
thoughts? smack downs? cookie?
Creative Director
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My pardon if this has been floated already, but i could not find a similar thread in my searches. Please point me to them, if they exist...
---Ever since i started running RotR, i have wondered if there was Sin Magic, what about the opposite? and what would you call it?
I am using a working storytelling background that there were 'good' runelords, but that they might have gone into hiding or something. still mulling.
thoughts? smack downs? cookie?
This topic has come up now and then on the boards, but we never did any official "Virtue Magic" stuff; the concept of magic tied to the seven sins was pretty much a one-way-street for the runelords (there are no good runelords in the official canon, of course).
This topic has come up now and then on the boards, but we never did any official "Virtue Magic" stuff; the concept of magic tied to the seven sins was pretty much a one-way-street for the runelords (there are no good runelords in the official canon, of course).
Really?
I always thought from the first write up that Emperor Xin sort of practiced virtue magic.. because from my spoty memory, he seemed to try to get the best out of people, and cultivated his power that way.
When the Empire grew too larger and fragmented (and Xin was no more), his 7 various successors took the easy way out by cultivating the related negative aspects of the virtues the Emperor once strove to promote.
Is that just flat out wrong?
IMHO, I think it's better this way. The seven sins are themselves a trope, but creating the diametric opposite just because there's an opposite might seem cliche.
If they could do it in an interesting way, that'd be fun. But why force it?
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Creative Director
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This topic has come up now and then on the boards, but we never did any official "Virtue Magic" stuff; the concept of magic tied to the seven sins was pretty much a one-way-street for the runelords (there are no good runelords in the official canon, of course).
Really?
I always thought from the first write up that Emperor Xin sort of practiced virtue magic.. because from my spoty memory, he seemed to try to get the best out of people, and cultivated his power that way.
When the Empire grew too larger and fragmented (and Xin was no more), his 7 various successors took the easy way out by cultivating the related negative aspects of the virtues the Emperor once strove to promote.
Is that just flat out wrong?
Nah; Emperor Xin practiced normal magic... or whatever was "normal" for Azlant, really. The seven virtues of rule were more of a thing to uphold for rulers, and when the Runelords started to embody them and develop their magic along those virtues, that's when the descent into sin took over. In any event, Xin's rule and influence over Thassilon in the end was very minor; he was always really a figurehead even in the best of times, really...
Of course, that might just be the way I'm remembering my initial thoughts on the matter. We certainly haven't nailed down exact details... and certainly the information on Thassilon we printed in the first Pathifnder has some stuff in it that likely contradicts what we've eventually settled on.
Thanks to James and the rest for you information and feedback.
behind the cut, as this could be spoilery...
I will creating a unique canon background for the RotR game we are running involving the goddess Desna and the Xin Emperor.
a 'good' runelord, or something counter to their ancient power, will be making itself know to our Cleric during her upcoming dream trance at the end of Hook Mountain.
The cleric named Ashlin is a Varisian who was abandoned/orphaned as a child and raised by the local preist. She is the younger foster child of Father Tobyn and foster sister to Nualia. Her story and path has become a great plot point and the player is still looking for her true family.
Also, the varisians she has encountered in the tale have not been seeing her as one of them...until recently. still working on the details, but it will involve the origins of the Varisian people.
should be interesting.
So your . . .
So your . . . ** spoiler omitted **
yep. that is the start.
i'm thinking she's Azanlist's (Runelord of Wrath) sister or mother or some such as well.keep it in the family.
So your . . . ** spoiler omitted **yep. that is the start.
i'm thinking she's Azanlist's (Runelord of Wrath) sister or mother or some such as well.keep it in the family.
Funny replying to my own thread.
yeah. i worked it out.Divination magic. wow.
I won't publish on the boards as the solution is completely against the so far established cannon and i am taking freedoms by making up my own historical facts of Thassilion events now.
but it works for our personal game.
thanks for the thoughts.
play on!
I won't publish on the boards as the solution is completely against the so far established cannon and i am taking freedoms by making up my own historical facts of Thassilion events now.
thanks for the thoughts.
play on!
For what it is worth, when by players get to the Runewell and IF they have a problem with the sin aspect being added to their weapons, I was going to allow them to research an alternative. I was going to allow that holy items from certain Golarion gods will manifest virtuous properties from the runewell. That way I don't have to rewrite history or the game mechanics, and I only have to bring along a list of the contrary virtues.
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I'm still not sure what sin magic actually is. I mean, how does it specifically empower or affect the Runelords' magic? The runewells are recipticles for the souls of the sinful, but how are the souls useful? I'm not connecting the dots between energy source and utility. All I have is:
The Runelords are evil.
The runewells are evil.
New spells!
Muhahaha.
I'm still not sure what sin magic actually is. I mean, how does it specifically empower or affect the Runelords' magic? The runewells are recipticles for the souls of the sinful, but how are the souls useful? I'm not connecting the dots between energy source and utility.
Some basic information is in PF #1 Burnt Offerings on pg. 30, describing a lesser runewell of wrath. PF # 4 Fortress of the Stone Giants introduces the runeslave cauldron; I can easily imagine a runewell being used for similar effects. The Runeforge in PF # 5 Sins of the Saviors contains the runeforge pool, which seems to be a more "general" runewell that draws on all seven versions of sin magic; it also contains The Pool of Elemental Arcana. The runewell Karzoug turned into the Eye of Avarice in PF # 6 Spires of Xin-Shalast, kept him "alive" for 10,000 years. Sorshen's Everdawn Pool in PF # 12 Crown of Fangs can "create undead, spawn mindless automations of flesh and blood, create simulacrums of those who bathe within, heal wounds, restore life to the dead, or even grant eternal youth."
Basically, sin magic is an expansion on regular arcane magic that uses soul energy from large groups (either living or dead) that are ritually "connected/marked" in some fashion (blood/flesh sample, associated to matching sin of nearby runewell, or Sihedron rune) to create effects that exceed/ignore normal limits. The details are deliberately left sketchy, IMO, for DMs to expand on (and prevent players from knowing how to use/exploit it for their own ends).