| Turin the Mad |
My profuse thanks to Sir pontoark for the suggestion to re-post my original ginormous posting into 3 smaller chunks. Thanks!
Rogues
Jason Bulmahn specifically directed his line of inquiry at the Rogue's 'Talents', specifically: "Are there enough? Are any of them too good? Are any of them underpowered? Are there any thematic areas that the tricks should cover?"
1. "Are there enough?"
There are 14 Rogue Talents and 8 Advanced Rogue Talents, which is quite a few (22 total) to hit the ground running with. That is a decent number to start off the Pathfinder RPG, although...
2. "Are any of them too good?"
'Slow Reactions' is probably too good - especially with a Rogue that can really Feint. This one Talent can completely remove Attacks of Opportunity from one foe completely - and against a solitary foe, said foe is total dogfood unless the Rogue is unable to reliably inflict damage. A rather improbable situation in Pathfinder Beta...
The other one that I would suggest meets this criteria is the 'Dispelling Strike' Advanced Talent.
3. "Are any of them underpowered?"
'Rogue Crawl' and 'Stand Up' are vastly underpowered by comparison to the rest, offering little as compared to all the other Talents.
4. "Are there any thematic areas that the tricks should cover?"
This really depends upon the thematic elements one is expecting to be so covered. I do not believe that a Rogue should be dispelling with a sneak attack. A better replacement for this would be along the lines of a "channelled offensive spell" or something, although I am of the opinion that 'Dispelling Attack' can be gotten rid of altogether.
Skill Tricks (especially Advanced) could also touch upon or enable 'variations' in conjunction with cashiering the Trap Sense class feature, improving upon 'rogue-ish' combat feats (Dodge and Improved Feint come readily to mind) or getting positively "Ebil" with thrown splash weapons.
| Diego Bastet |
I am happy to say that I converted the pc rogue of my game to the pf rogue, and I want to point two small points here with you.
One: Rogue crawl was the first my group's rogue got. It depends severely on the style of play of the Dm. In a game where enemies trip the good guys, like mine, this talent REALLY makes the rogue fantastic. Better yet with a crossbow.
Two: I may be alone here, but I think that the rogue should be able to have something to allow him to detect traps secretly. Something like "if the rogue gets within 5 feet of the trap, the DM rolls a secret roll" or "if the rogue gets within 5 feet of the trap, the DM compares the CD with 10+the rogue's search" or something like this.
I say this because it's a little stupid In Game the way that rogues slowly crawl along a 60 ft path, searching 5 ft by 5 ft... Anyway, this ability would be something that would give a good speed boost, and that since only the rogue would get, could be roleplayed like "the rogue is supposed to be always looking for traps, even if the PLAYER is not..."
Oh! And by the way, my players are loving even more the Rogue now. So very much more Ninja!
Just my cents here...
| Turin the Mad |
I am happy to say that I converted the pc rogue of my game to the pf rogue, and I want to point two small points here with you.
One: Rogue crawl was the first my group's rogue got. It depends severely on the style of play of the Dm. In a game where enemies trip the good guys, like mine, this talent REALLY makes the rogue fantastic. Better yet with a crossbow.
Two: I may be alone here, but I think that the rogue should be able to have something to allow him to detect traps secretly. Something like "if the rogue gets within 5 feet of the trap, the DM rolls a secret roll" or "if the rogue gets within 5 feet of the trap, the DM compares the CD with 10+the rogue's search" or something like this.
I say this because it's a little stupid In Game the way that rogues slowly crawl along a 60 ft path, searching 5 ft by 5 ft... Anyway, this ability would be something that would give a good speed boost, and that since only the rogue would get, could be roleplayed like "the rogue is supposed to be always looking for traps, even if the PLAYER is not..."
Oh! And by the way, my players are loving even more the Rogue now. So very much more Ninja!
Just my cents here...
Oh, I do not actually disagree with the weakest Talents, just that compared to the others they seem to be rather lackluster, falling under the "which ones are too weak" question. I suspect Sir Bulmahn already suspects this and is gathering feedback to perhaps get inspiration or replacements or better to address the perception.
Your suggestion is more specific than mine regarding Trap Sense as a class feature. I rather enjoy the prospect of a mechanical definitive that simultaneously speeds up play by "passively taking 10 on the Rogue's Search check" in place of Trap Sense. An excellent idea. Kudos! Of course, I may be out of line on this ... but if so, then I get the credit :P
And yessiree, Rogues are now plenty able to "go Ninja" as it were.