No, for that effect you have to take Agile Maneuvers (Beta PFRPG page 81). I agree that we are not still too sure about what feats/spells/ abilities add bonuses to the CMB, but since there is a dedicated feat I'm quite sure about this specific case(also, Weapon Finesse speaks about "attack rolls").
To be honest, I think Weapon Finesse should just grant the effects of Agile Maneuvers as well ...
I think Weapon Finesse should disappear and be turned into a general combat option everyone can use.
I think Weapon Finesse should disappear and be turned into a general combat option everyone can use.That's not very backwards combatable, though.
We're talking about a single feat. It would be just like with Track, which is gone, too, its benefits having been made available to all.
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We're talking about a single feat. It would be just like with Track, which is gone, too, its benefits having been made available to all.
True, but Jason has said he is considering putting Track back in as a feat, partially for the reason of backwards compatability.
Besides, it's easy enough to house rule that everyone gets Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, isn't it?
I certainly think that it should be made explicit exactly which type of bonuses help with a CMB check (Bless? bard song? Prayer? Haste? flanking? enhancement bonus for a magic weapon?).
I certainly think that it should be made explicit exactly which type of bonuses help with a CMB check (Bless? bard song? Prayer? Haste? flanking? enhancement bonus for a magic weapon?).
I think we will have to wait for the weeks of playtesting discussing Combat for that (from 15 to 28 December).
In the meantime, we have (IMHO) to just keep all bonuses out (except that from feats that specify a bonus to the CMB itself and - perhaps - the bonuses from Weapon Training).Just my 2c.
True, but Jason has said he is considering putting Track back in as a feat, partially for the reason of backwards compatability.
Really? Well, as long as it doesn't work as before, but rather gives you some bonus to tracking instead of getting rid of that weird restriction.
Besides, it's easy enough to house rule that everyone gets Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, isn't it?
Of course. Which is why I'm not on an Undying Crusade against the Vile Abomination that is Weapon Finesse!
In the meantime, we have (IMHO) to just keep all bonuses out (except that from feats that specify a bonus to the CMB itself and - perhaps - the bonuses from Weapon Training).
Just my 2c.
Except it also says your CMB check is an "Attack Roll". Which by definition, take "Attack Bonuses".
(of course, that means Weapon Finesse/ Dex. Maneuvers are superfluous)The elegant solution is not to worry about forking off a slightly-variant Attack Roll subsystem (minor differences amongst many similarities are confusing & hard to remember), but to have Maneuver Attacks BE Attack Rolls, and replace a CMB DC (15+CMB+X?) with a Maneuver AC, which would fit in with the AC system (taking bonuses like Fighting Defensively, DEX mods, etc) and would just need one or two lines to define how it's affected by BAB, etc.
You can re-engineer the wheel, or just design a new tire tread.
To be honest, I think Weapon Finesse should just grant the effects of Agile Maneuvers as well ...
I've rolled Agile Maneuvers into Weapon Finesse too. I didn't see the reason for the yet another addition feat for the Dex fighters.
I've also decided to let the Improved (Maneuver) feats scale to +4 at level 10 until more is decided upon what conditions effect CMB.
In the meantime, we have (IMHO) to just keep all bonuses out (except that from feats that specify a bonus to the CMB itself and - perhaps - the bonuses from Weapon Training).
Just my 2c.
See, it's those "perhaps" cases that I'm wondering about. :-)