Bards want the Jack, and they want it NOW!

[KaeYoss]

The Jack I'm talking about is, of course, He of All Trades.

I think it comes too late. At level 19, most of its effects won't make that much of a difference.

So I say let's split it up into three abilities:

Use every ability untrained (Level 4)

Consider every skill a class skill (Level 10)

Take 10 in any skill you have at least 5 ranks in. (Level 19)

I think the untrained part won't turn you into an unstoppable force of devastation, and the +3 to lots of skills will still have an impact on level 10.

[Velderan]

Not a bad idea. I too would like to see the 'jack of all trades' aspect played up a bit more.

[Fendin Foxfast]

Yes. Something like this would be a welcome improvement.

[Brother Willi]

Exactly what I was thinking. At 19th level, Jack of All Trades is rather useless. Sure, you can try anything. But the Skill DCs required for those near-epic adventures means you won't get close unless you have ranks it in anyway.

[Michael Gear]

I will, likely, implement this starting immediately.

Cheers

[Epic Meepo]

Sounds good to me.

[Arakhor]

I quite like this idea, but I would want to be wary of making the bard too versatile.

[Prime Evil]

Yep. This is a very sensible idea.

[KaeYoss]

Since using Jack of All Trades as the name for three abilities would be weird, I even have some suggestions for the names:

Dilettante: Use every ability untrained (Level 4)

Jack of all Trades: Consider every skill a class skill (Level 10)

Effortless Ease: Take 10 in any skill you have at least 5 ranks in. (Level 19)

[BlaineTog]

Agreed!

[Prime Evil]

Thinking about this proposal, I'd probably go one step further and also give bards a free skill focus feat at first or second level.

[JoelF847]

Great idea! I hope to see something close to this in the final version.

[Jason Bulmahn]

I have been thinking about expanding this ability down to the lower levels and some of the proposals here closely match my thoughts.

I will think on this further.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

[KaeYoss]

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

I have been thinking about expanding this ability down to the lower levels and some of the proposals here closely match my thoughts.

Sure, steal my ideas and sell them as your own! X(

Haha, just kidding!

Anyway, it's great to see one's suggestions or ideas making their way into the game, or have game designers whose thoughts run along the same lines as one's own.

[Montalve]

really nice idea
i like it!
my captain needs it!

[KaeYoss]

Montalve wrote:

really nice idea

i like it!
my captain needs it!

If he's Captain Jack (of all Trades), he can have it :)

And otherwise, too, of course. If your GM allows it. If he doesn't, cast a musical charm on him.

[ruemere]

So you want Bard to become an Expert on steroids (+3 to all skills)?
Why not limit it a bit to simply adding a skill as class skill once a level?
That may encourage people to keep browsing skill list after 10th.

Regards,
Ruemere

[KaeYoss]

ruemere wrote:

So you want Bard to become an Expert on steroids (+3 to all skills)?

Best fit for it. And I just want him to become that sooner - the ability is already in the beta.

ruemere wrote:

Why not limit it a bit to simply adding a skill as class skill once a level?

Why bother? It's not as if this turns bards into all-powerful agents of omniscience. Keep it one ability.

[ruemere]

KaeYoss wrote:

ruemere wrote:

So you want Bard to become an Expert on steroids (+3 to all skills)?

Best fit for it. And I just want him to become that sooner - the ability is already in the beta.

ruemere wrote:

Why not limit it a bit to simply adding a skill as class skill once a level?

Why bother? It's not as if this turns bards into all-powerful agents of omniscience. Keep it one ability.

Ah, all you need to do is to declare it at first level. For example:

Jack of All Trades (Ex)
Bard class feature, gained at level: 1.
Benefit: each time you gain a level in Bard class, you may choose a skill and add it to your class skill list (class skill checks are made at +3 bonus).

Speaking of skills, how about these abilities:
Hidden Potential (Ex)
Bard class feature, gained at level: 3.
Benefit: When you level up, you may save some of your skill points to use up later on a skill of your choice. You must spent all skill points saved that way before you gain your next level.

Fast Learner (Ex)
Bard class feature, gained at level: 5.
Benefit: Whenever you perform any activity related to a skill you do not invested skill points yet, you may train yourself in the basics of the skill.
Training requires succesful Bard level check versus DC 20 (roll d20, add your Bard class levels) after 8 hours (1 working day) of training. If you are being tutored, add also tutor's Charisma modifier to the check.
You may attempt to learn skill faster, however you take the penalty to the check equal to the number of hours you want to deduct from the amount needed to improve your skill (training always takes at least one hour).
It is possible to try again.
You may continue training to gain further skill points: multiply basic time needed to train by number of skill points already invested in skill (8 hours to gain 2nd skill point, 16 hours to gain 3rd skill point and so on), increase DC by number of skill points already invested in skill (DC 21 for 2nd skill point, DC 22 for 3rd skill point and so on).
You may split training over several sessions, however you must train at least one hour per day.
Success means you gain 1 free skill point for the sole purpose of investing in the skill.

Regards,
Ruemere

[KaeYoss]

ruemere wrote:

Speaking of skills, how about these abilities:
Hidden Potential (Ex)
Bard class feature, gained at level: 3.
Benefit: When you level up, you may save some of your skill points to use up later on a skill of your choice. You must spent all skill points saved that way before you gain your next level.

I think stuff like this should be general house rules, not specific class abilities.