Rather than attempt to plug into the vast sea of posts, I'll summarize my findings in a single thread for a given area (Design Forum subfora, as it were). Apologies in advance for any and all redundancies with other threads.
Dwarves
Stability: The +4 bonus should be reduced to a +2 bonus to keep it line with the pertinent feats.
Half-Orcs
Favored Class: The barbarian is effectively the 'iconic' favored class for Half-Orcs. However, unless Druid as a class can be shown to more accurately embody the 'shaman'-type of effect, I would suggest changing this to Cleric instead.
Humans
Weapon Training: The proficiency with any one martial weapon of choice is utterly lost to any and all classes proficient with martial weapons. I would suggest something along the lines of "... or with an exotic weapon of their choice should their first class level be in a class proficient with all martial weapons."
Favored Classes: Recommend removing the 1 hp per level bonus, retaining the 1 skill rank per level in one's declared favored class bonus in its stead.
Starting Hit Points: From a nominal balance stand-point, I would either retain the "Standard" rule or go with the "Flat" rule of a +6 hit point 'kicker' at 1st level. Note that I would stipulate in the NPC classes section that NPC class levels never earn this bonus unless the campaign accomodates an all-NPC-class group of characters.
The barbarian is effectively the 'iconic' favored class for Half-Orcs. However, unless Druid as a class can be shown to more accurately embody the 'shaman'-type of effect, I would suggest changing this to Cleric instead.
Elsewhere, we were remarking how many druids are now half-orcs, due to the mechanical advantages of +2 to Str and Wis. Indeed, someone remarked that the half-orc druid might become more iconic in Pathfinder than the half-orc barbarian was in 3rd ed. Personally, that doesn't bother me at all; orcs as a "race of the wild" works fine for me (and I'd almost rather ditch half-orcs and just have orc characters, but I know that will never happen).
...and I'd almost rather ditch half-orcs and just have orc characters, but I know that will never happen...i agree with this 100%, it avoids all of the unpleasant "origins" speculation that generally surrounds the half-orc's existence...
Well, it's a holdover from 1e, when orcs were a "monster" race, and thus could only be the equivalent of adepts or warriors, whereas half-orcs were a "PC" race and could thus be clerics or fighters. That silliness was done away with in 3.0, thankfully, but for reasons solely involving tradition, they stuck with "half-orcs" instead of just making them orcs.
One or two others:
The Bardic Performance abilities should be described as Mind Affecting abilities, which they are NOT currently. They clearly are, and creatures/opponents that are immune or warded from mind affecting effects should not be succeptible to Bard's performance abilities.
Additionally, the Bard ability gained at 20th level should be considered a "death effect" that is safeguarded by Deathward. It is NOT presently designated as such.
"Monstrous" races have always gotten the shaft in fantasy games. This was all fine and well back when D&D was originally created, but the idea that Goblins, Orcs, and any other creature that is "ugly" is irredeemably evil needs to be put down once and for all. Yes, I realize that most members of the standard "monster" cultures are still going to spend most of their time trying to raid your farmlands and take your stuff, but this doesn't have to automatically be the norm in every campaign world. Nor is it a good reason to give these races sub-standard ability scores and racial abilities. I'm hoping that Pathfinder addresses some of these issues in their Monster Book.
Nor is it a good reason to give these races sub-standard ability scores and racial abilities.
Or no ability scores at all (except a range for Int), as the case used to be!
The barbarian is effectively the 'iconic' favored class for Half-Orcs. However, unless Druid as a class can be shown to more accurately embody the 'shaman'-type of effect, I would suggest changing this to Cleric instead.Elsewhere, we were remarking how many druids are now half-orcs, due to the mechanical advantages of +2 to Str and Wis. Indeed, someone remarked that the half-orc druid might become more iconic in Pathfinder than the half-orc barbarian was in 3rd ed. Personally, that doesn't bother me at all; orcs as a "race of the wild" works fine for me (and I'd almost rather ditch half-orcs and just have orc characters, but I know that will never happen).
I've got a Druid in the Beta-test campaign, and no one at the table even considered playing a half-orc.
I do agree with the sentiment that half-orcs are an acceptable "race of the wild". My only contention is that druids 'as written' are not that well suited to being a 'shaman'-type of character.
From a semi-realistic standpoint that has been voiced before, "Half-whatever" races are not genetically possible. So another agreeable sentiment would be that half-orcs are really orcs, or perhaps more accurately the whole "Klingons looked too much like humans back-when" kind of thing.
What will be interesting in the months/years to come is to see what Paizo's "take" on half-orcs are and what they actually tend to have as a culture.
One or two others:
The Bardic Performance abilities should be described as Mind Affecting abilities, which they are NOT currently. They clearly are, and creatures/opponents that are immune or warded from mind affecting effects should not be succeptible to Bard's performance abilities.
Additionally, the Bard ability gained at 20th level should be considered a "death effect" that is safeguarded by Deathward. It is NOT presently designated as such.
While very correct, this is best vocalized when they pertinent section "opens up" for commentary by the Paizonians. ^_^
the unpleasant "origins" speculation that generally surrounds the half-orc's existence...
There's no speculation here: easily 90% of all half-orcs are the result of rape. Orcs abduct human women to breed half-orcs because they make good leaders.
I would also suggest, along the Races/Favored Classes lines, that the races have "racially favored prestige classes" as well.
EXAMPLES:
Elves would have Arcane Archer and Archmage as racial favored prestige classes.
Dwarves would have Dwarven Defender and Heirophant.
Gnomes would have Arcane Trickster and Loremaster.
Half-orcs would have and Heirophant. I could certainly see the horrific concept of a half-orc Mystic Theurge though instead of Heirophant.
Halflings would have Arcane Trickster and Shadowdancer.
Half-Elves and Humans count their first prestige class as a favored prestige class.
From a semi-realistic standpoint that has been voiced before, "Half-whatever" races are not genetically possible.
Yeah, tell me about it. Can you imagine a bizarre fantasy world where half-horse/half-donkeys or half-lion/half-tigers were possible? That's about as likely as getting ham, bacon and pork chops from the same animal!
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From a semi-realistic standpoint that has been voiced before, "Half-whatever" races are not genetically possible.Yeah, tell me about it. Can you imagine a bizarre fantasy world where half-horse/half-donkeys or half-lion/half-tigers were possible? That's about as likely as getting ham, bacon and pork chops from the same animal!
We had one dude at work who was busy explaining to us how the Liger (Goliath) we had just seen at King Richard's Faire couldn't be real, because different species couldn't interbreed. I'm like, 'what about mules?' Turns out he thought mules were a seperate species. "Mules are sterile." "I know that." "Then how the hell could they be a seperate species if they can't breed!!!"
Heh. Dragons and demons can mate with anything, so I'm okay with half-orcs and half-elves, too. Imaginary species can break a few rules.
From a semi-realistic standpoint that has been voiced before, "Half-whatever" races are not genetically possible.Yeah, tell me about it. Can you imagine a bizarre fantasy world where half-horse/half-donkeys or half-lion/half-tigers were possible? That's about as likely as getting ham, bacon and pork chops from the same animal!We had one dude at work who was busy explaining to us how the Liger (Goliath) we had just seen at King Richard's Faire couldn't be real, because different species couldn't interbreed. I'm like, 'what about mules?' Turns out he thought mules were a seperate species. "Mules are sterile." "I know that." "Then how the hell could they be a seperate species if they can't breed!!!"
Heh. Dragons and demons can mate with anything, so I'm okay with half-orcs and half-elves, too. Imaginary species can break a few rules.
Excellent points gentlecritters, ones inspiring mirth and laughter. :) Many thanks!
Although I've never heard of "ligers" IRL, so that one should be fun to look up later.
Although I've never heard of "ligers" IRL, so that one should be fun to look up later.
"It's pretty much my favorite animal." --Napoleon Dynamite
Ligers rock. they're giants among cats. Herridans should be based off them.
From a semi-realistic standpoint that has been voiced before, "Half-whatever" races are not genetically possible.
They don't use genetics.
Ligers rock. they're giants among cats. Herridans should be based off them.
From a semi-realistic standpoint that has been voiced before, "Half-whatever" races are not genetically possible.They don't use genetics.
LoL
Can someone seriously answer me why in a world where men can shoot fire from their hands. Where a lizard the size of a small bus can manage lift with its wings. Where giant insects can overcome the fact that their lungs and muscles are incapable of function above a certain body size. Where the gods themselves can trod beside and influence their followers.. Some people still whine about 'Races shouldn't be able to interbreed its not realistic..' Seriously.. The only ones you usually see are half elves.. Which are fantasy Iconic, and half orcs whose parent race had a reputation of being able to breed with everything but elves.. Not out of genetic incompatibility but because their gods said no. Hell one of the old D&D myths of the elves was there was a fight between elf god and orc gods and where thier blood fell the respective races were born and where it fell mixed came humans.
As for sterility.. Mules are sterile because when horses and donkeys breed their chromosomes match up weirdly. With ligers its because the males never go through puberty.. Part of the reason their so big.. The hormone the male lion gets during the beginning of puberty never gets the shut off command <Comes from the moma lion> Its why they only happen from female tigers and male lion pairings. Tigons and female Ligers are actually fertile.
And why does everyone think of it as horses and mules.. why not like wolves and dogs ? Or hell even dogs and dogs ? Its not like if your on a world that had evolution your other races are likely to have evolved from hila monsters or some such rubbish
As far as I know, all dogs are still the same species, more specifically a sub species of the grey wolf. Dogs are Canis Lupus Familiaris ("the familiar wolf").
Different kinds of digs aren't different species, just different breeds.
Of course, all the talk about evolution, genetics, natural (and artificial) selection, and any other stuff biologists are getting all excited about nowadays is so very irrelevant in a fantasy world. In a universe where magic is real and the gods take an all-too-direct interest in things, mere science can go pack its things and go - it's neither needed nor wanted. If the gods decree that halfings are in fact a subrace of land see-otter, then halfings are a subrace of land see-otter. The gods are always right, not least because they can make your life very interesting indeed if you defy them.
Oh, and as long as we have owlbears, I don't want to hear anything about half-elves any more.