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Was Ayers convicted of terrorism? Former terrorist at best.
Inactive is closer than former. He still supports the means, he just cannot be bothered to disrupt his new comfortable life to employ them/
Obama said he didn't launch his political campaign there. Others have claimed Obama started his campaign in their living room, not Ayers' living room.
And yet there was the event hosted by Ayers to introduce him.
Hard to get away from that.And, frankly, I'm not sure I see the strong contrast. Maybe I'm just looking at it in Canadian terms where the whacked out separatists are also the former terrorists.
You can be a separatist without being a terrorist. It is not all that impossible. Remember that Gandhi fellow?
Ah the left always tries to claim that the right is the meanies. And yet what do we get on the left?
Liberals calling Palin sexists names like FrankenBarbie. Pretty pathetic coming from people that are suppose to be champions of feminism, and yet attack any woman that doesn't think like they do.
Open-mindedness at its finest.
No s*@#?
Yep. Apparently a widespread problem and they're trying to figure out what to do about it. Reminded me immediately of our last coyote discussion and the disbelief we met with.
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Ah the left always tries to claim that the right is the meanies. And yet what do we get on the left?
Liberals calling Palin sexists names like FrankenBarbie. Pretty pathetic coming from people that are suppose to be champions of feminism, and yet attack any woman that doesn't think like they do.
Open-mindedness at its finest.
So you're going to extend one person's statements to the entire group of left-leaning people?
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Well, Obama was the chairman of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, an education initiative founded by William Ayers and which dispensed a substantial amount of money to some of Ayers projects. In addition, one of the first fundraising efforts for Obama was conducted at the home of Ayers and his wife.
William Ayers was involved with the Weathermen back in the 60s. Although he was never convicted of the crimes they committed (setting off bombs in D.C. and causing at least one death), Mr. Ayers has never denied his involvement, never expressed regret as to his actions, and has even stated that he doesn't think they set off enough bombs.
In and of itself, this is no smoking gun, but I can see how it does make some people uncomfortable, especially after the controversey involving Rev. Wright.
But for the fact of the number of prominent Republicans participating in the same Board. Ooops. That wasn't mentioned by her.
BTW - how come we don't hear of her questionable affiliation with the Alaskan Independence Party - a group whose goal is to separate from the Lower 48 into its own nation, and with many a member who treat the United States' presence with hostility?
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Don't forget to call me a troll when you get in the last word and spout out a few more right wing talking points while claiming your not a right-winger! Future archeologists studying the internet will want proof of your genius. Don't let them down!
No, I will just skip to calling you the vicious little punk masquerading as a bully masquerading as a person capable of rational discussion.
As such, when it comes to being capable of a complete discussion do not tell lies. You will never engage in such as you are too caught up in your ego to do anything but indulge your venomous rage whenever anyone demonstrates an unwillingness to submit to your frenzied demands for total supremacy.As for right wing talking points, I knew you would go for yet another pathetic lie to try and distract from the flaws of the object of your cult of personality. Again, that is typical of Obama supporters, and highly indicative of how damaging any administration of his would be.
You've really got to start using quotes. He said that at one point in the past he didn't know about Ayers' past (#2) and that ultimately he became aware of it (#3). No change.
At some point in my past, I wasn't aware that chocolate tasted great but ultimately I became aware of it.
Which again, begs the question:
So he learned about his past. When between the time he learned about Ayers' past and the time he learned Ayers wasn't repentent about it did he believe Ayres was rehabilitated? You can't say that Obama didn't learn about his past until Ayers started making a deal about not being repentent about it and then say, "Oh I thought he was rehabilitated". Well I guess you could say that and the Wild-Barry kool-aid drinkers could buy it but what rational person would?
And again, like I just said in the post you just quoted, I am talking about impressions. #2's impression is Obama wasn't aware of Ayers' history until recently. #3's impression is that Obama did become aware of Ayers' history a while back but thought he was rehabilitated. Sure you can take a very legalistic approach and say things like, "He didn't use those exact words" but in that case you are just missing the point. It is not about the exact words, it is about the impression he is giving off.
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No s*@#?Yep. Apparently a widespread problem and they're trying to figure out what to do about it. Reminded me immediately of our last coyote discussion and the disbelief we met with.
It didn't look like anybody was disbelieving; IDK. I've seen some weird crap in my life, and I take a weird pride in people telling me I'm full of it.
I think you just have to walk quietly in the world to see this stuff.
So you're going to extend one person's statements to the entire group of left-leaning people?Ah the left always tries to claim that the right is the meanies. And yet what do we get on the left?
Liberals calling Palin sexists names like FrankenBarbie. Pretty pathetic coming from people that are suppose to be champions of feminism, and yet attack any woman that doesn't think like they do.
Open-mindedness at its finest.
Not at all, but neither am I going to accept that the right is all a bunch of haters. As someone said on a post I saw.
Difference between McCain and Obama on character. When a racist says something at a rally, McCain takes the mic away and defends his opponent. Obama on the other hand sat in a pew listening to a racist for something like 10 years and didn't say anything.
The left isn't all flowers and love, there is a lot of hate there just as there is a lot on the right. Frankly I get sick of some of the lefties running around saying that if you vote republican you are supporting "the party of hate". Please, what an assasine statement and totally ignorant of those haters within their own fold or heart.
No s*@#?Yep. Apparently a widespread problem and they're trying to figure out what to do about it. Reminded me immediately of our last coyote discussion and the disbelief we met with.It didn't look like anybody was disbelieving; IDK. I've seen some weird crap in my life, and I take a weird pride in people telling me I'm full of it.
I think you just have to walk quietly in the world to see this stuff.
Well, my brain is emptying itself of chapter 3 of my diss, so I could be remembering anything from that far back...but I did remember about Mesquite....maybe it was something about cities and greenspaces...hmmm
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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You've really got to start using quotes. He said that at one point in the past he didn't know about Ayers' past (#2) and that ultimately he became aware of it (#3). No change.
At some point in my past, I wasn't aware that chocolate tasted great but ultimately I became aware of it.
Which again, begs the question:
So he learned about his past. When between the time he learned about Ayers' past and the time he learned Ayers wasn't repentent about it did he believe Ayres was rehabilitated? You can't say that Obama didn't learn about his past until Ayers started making a deal about not being repentent about it and then say, "Oh I thought he was rehabilitated". Well I guess you could say that and the Wild-Barry kool-aid drinkers could buy it but what rational person would?
I figure Obama probably progressively became aware of Ayers' past over time. I don't understand the kool-aid reference. Is the misspelling of berry part of the joke that I'm not getting? Obama did continue to serve on the board for sometime with people from all walks of life from the right and the left.
And again, like I just said in the post you just quoted, I am talking about impressions. #2's impression is Obama wasn't aware of Ayers' history until recently. #3's impression is that Obama did become aware of Ayers' history a while back but thought he was rehabilitated. Sure you can take a very legalistic approach and say things like, "He didn't use those exact words" but in that case you are just missing the point. It is not about the exact words, it is about the impression he is giving off.
Your impressions are very different than mine. I get the impression that Obama denounces Ayers' actions and will not be bringing him to Washington.
Your impressions are very different than mine. I get the impression that Obama denounces Ayers' actions and will not be bringing him to Washington.
That fits with my take, given the list of other people they named that was on that same committee.
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Not at all, but neither am I going to accept that the right is all a bunch of haters. As someone said on a post I saw.
Difference between McCain and Obama on character. When a racist says something at a rally, McCain takes the mic away and defends his opponent. Obama on the other hand sat in a pew listening to a racist for something like 10 years and didn't say anything.
The left isn't all flowers and love, there is a lot of hate there just as there is a lot on the right. Frankly I get sick of some of the lefties running around saying that if you vote republican you are supporting "the party of hate". Please, what an assasine statement and totally ignorant of those haters within their own fold or heart.
I don't think that the right are haters. I'm entirely comfortable with the idea that everyone has unique political beliefs and they don't all have to be grouped together.
However, by condemning the left for making a broad statement on all the right-leaning people (in this case, that the right are all haters) and at the same time generalizing the left in the same kind of broad strokes (by implying that liberals believe in that article you linked, or that all left-leaning people support feminism) makes it hard for me to sympathize with you.
It's true that making these sweeping statements is wrong, but just because someone did it to you is not a valid reason to do it to them. I don't think "he started it" is not a great argument in the real world. Both sides are guilty of this tactic, so there's no moral superiority to be found here.
Note: I am very guilty of being an idealist, so you can take this whole post with a grain of salt. :)
William Ayers--Secretary of Edjimication.
"First rule of fight club,...."
Ha-ha! Aw, man...need to pick that up.
Your impressions are very different than mine. I get the impression that Obama denounces Ayers' actions and will not be bringing him to Washington.
Yup, just like he denounced Rev. Wrights comments once it became politically expedient to do so. New brand of politics, "That's not change, that's just more of the same."
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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So you're going to extend one person's statements to the entire group of left-leaning people?Ah the left always tries to claim that the right is the meanies. And yet what do we get on the left?
Liberals calling Palin sexists names like FrankenBarbie. Pretty pathetic coming from people that are suppose to be champions of feminism, and yet attack any woman that doesn't think like they do.
Open-mindedness at its finest.
Not at all, but neither am I going to accept that the right is all a bunch of haters. As someone said on a post I saw.
Difference between McCain and Obama on character. When a racist says something at a rally, McCain takes the mic away and defends his opponent. Obama on the other hand sat in a pew listening to a racist for something like 10 years and didn't say anything.
The left isn't all flowers and love, there is a lot of hate there just as there is a lot on the right. Frankly I get sick of some of the lefties running around saying that if you vote republican you are supporting "the party of hate". Please, what an assasine statement and totally ignorant of those haters within their own fold or heart.
I don't know anything about the church thing so I won't comment on that. I will agree with you that those on the left can be equally intolerant and assinine. Hey, I've lived there. I know some real jerks who are anti-racists and some racists who I like very much.
When one of my former students became my son's teacher, she said to me "You must hate this. I've disagreed with just about every liberal leftie thing you tried to teach us."
I was shocked. I answered quite honestly, "No. I love it because you disagreed well. You were thoughtful, honest, and articulate. Teach away."
I don't think that the right are haters. I'm entirely comfortable with the idea that everyone has unique political beliefs and they don't all have to be grouped together.
Great. Never said you did. You jumped on me, remember, I didn't jump on you.
However, by condemning the left for making a broad statement on all the right-leaning people (in this case, that the right are all haters) and at the same time generalizing the left in the same kind of broad strokes (by implying that liberals believe in that article you linked, or that all left-leaning people support feminism) makes it hard for me to sympathize with you.
I didn't condemn the entire left, I said:
And yet what do we get on the left?
Are you claiming that Naomi Wolf is not on the left? If she isn't then I will surely apologize. And are you claiming that Ms. Wolf doesn't believe she is a feminist?
It's true that making these sweeping statements is wrong, but just because someone did it to you is not a valid reason to do it to them. I don't think "he started it" is not a great argument in the real world. Both sides are guilty of this tactic, so there's no moral superiority to be found here.
I didn't make broad statements, I said we get sexist statements that come from the left, such as from lefties like Ms. Wolf. Did I say that every single person who has left-leaning views says the stupid crap that Ms. Wolf says, but she is clearly left-leaning I think you'd agree. My point was, too many times people try to point fingers at the right leaning folks and call them all kinds of names, when they should be looking around at the people they are standing with. How many of them are at least as bad.
Note: I am very guilty of being an idealist, so you can take this whole post with a grain of salt. :)
Well I think you jumped the gun a bit.
What difference does it make? Obama has so much more experience than Palin that we know exactly where he stands on the issues.
Had to come out of lurking for this one.
First a disclosure - I do not like McCain, and I was considering an Obama vote as an anti-McCain vote. I do like Palin and I think the MSM has been out to get her since day 1. She truely is an outsider to the Washington game and it showed when she got slapped around by Katie Couric.
With that said she has FAR more leadership experience than Obama. Name two major pieces of legislation that Obama has past in the senate... how about one... What has Obama done?? The only thing Obama has leadership experience in is help Bill Ayers run the Annenburg Project in Chicago. Eight years, 100 million+ dollars, and there is nothing to show for it. The money was not spent on improving reading, writing or arithmatic, but on frivolis lefty projects and cementy political clout.
Palin has run a fishing busines, a small town, and a state very succesfully (highest rating of a govener in the nation). She is a doer, Barack is a talker.
I will vote for McCain even though I am not sure he can win. What changed my mind was that the more I learned about Barack, the more scared I became of him. His own past associates, his own words from "Dreams of my Fathers", and the few things that he did vote on show him to be an extremely left wing politician. Now I will vote for McCain as vote against Obama.
P.S. One other disclosure, I'm old enough to remember Carter - Obama shows all the signs of being even worse than Carter - that's BAD!
I'm voting for Obama and then applying for jobs in Alaska.
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Liberals calling Palin sexists names like FrankenBarbie. Pretty pathetic coming from people that are suppose to be champions of feminism, and yet attack any woman that doesn't think like they do.
This was what you wrote. It was not 'liberals' who called Palin sexist names, it was a liberal, in this case, Naomi Wolf. There is a difference. For example, Canada's Conservative Prime Minister has fought for the rights of parents to employ corporal punishment on their children (this was way before he was PM). I would not then say that Conservatives want to be able to beat their kids.
This was what you wrote. It was not 'liberals' who called Palin sexist names, it was a liberal, in this case, Naomi Wolf.
So if I can find any other examples of any other liberals calling her any other sexist terms, can my comment be ok in your eyes?
Liberals calling Palin sexists names like FrankenBarbie. Pretty pathetic coming from people that are suppose to be champions of feminism, and yet attack any woman that doesn't think like they do.This was what you wrote. It was not 'liberals' who called Palin sexist names, it was a liberal, in this case, Naomi Wolf. There is a difference. For example, Canada's Conservative Prime Minister has fought for the rights of parents to employ corporal punishment on their children. I would not then say that Conservatives want to beat their kids.
Sorry, I'm woefully ignorant of Canadian laws. Is corporal punishment illegal in Canada?
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But for the fact of the number of prominent Republicans participating in the same Board. Ooops. That wasn't mentioned by her.
Those people are not running for President.
BTW - how come we don't hear of her questionable affiliation with the Alaskan Independence Party - a group whose goal is to separate from the Lower 48 into its own nation, and with many a member who treat the United States' presence with hostility?
We have heard about that.
Including in this thread.To repeat:
The AIP has, no matter its rhetoric, never engaged in any terrorist acts.
The AIP has, no matter its rhetoric, never engaged in any directly charged illegal activities.
Sarah Palin's only "affiliation" has been her husband, who was a member from 1995-2002.
The party at that time had moved away from its initial extreme positions and was becoming just another libertarian party, affiliating with the larger Constitution Party.
"I only regret we did not do more (set more bombs that is)"
compares very poorly with,
"I am an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
Particularly when the idiot saying the second was in fact an American. (He was born in Kansas, moved to Alaska when 29 to work for the US Army for 9 years, and was only in business for himself as a miner and developer for 5 years before the vote that made Alaska a state. It then took him 17 years to conceive of enough hatred for the US to form a political party with an eye to challenging the statehood vote.)
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So if I can find any other examples of any other liberals calling her any other sexist terms, can my comment be ok in your eyes?
Sure, if you can prove to me that liberals as a group call Palin sexist names, that would validate your comment to me.
But I wouldn't worry too much about having your comment be OK in my eyes, I'm pretty much insignificant in the grand scheme of things. It's not worth it! :)
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Sorry, I'm woefully ignorant of Canadian laws. Is corporal punishment illegal in Canada?
I don't believe it is (but don't quote me on this, I'm no expert), but I think there was debate about it, and he wanted to make sure that it remained legal in the face of some opposition who wanted to ban it.
Looking up the topic, it was kind of surprising how much it is banned throughout the world.
I'm voting for Obama and then applying for jobs in Alaska.Texas needs to secede, and then get Palin to be President.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeehaw!!!
Hmm...let's have a "native Texans only can be president" law.
Sure, if you can prove to me that liberals as a group call Palin sexist names, that would validate your comment to me.
But I wouldn't worry too much about having your comment be OK in my eyes, I'm pretty much insignificant in the grand scheme of things. It's not worth it! :)
Ok, I won't bother than.
My comment was most likely not precise enough is all. You read it as me saying "All liberals" where I meant it to be "Some liberals", since I put neither word before liberals, I can understand the confusion.
But Davy Crockett wasn't from Texas.
True, but he's dead, so I don't have to worry about that.
I'm voting for Obama and then applying for jobs in Alaska.Texas needs to secede, and then get Palin to be President.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeehaw!!!
Sounds good to me! Who would her VP be?
Look at it this way, pres, you've been doing real well with words on our other thread.
Just no Oklahomans, or Coloradoans.Hmm...let's have a "native Texans only can be president" law.I'm voting for Obama and then applying for jobs in Alaska.Texas needs to secede, and then get Palin to be President.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeehaw!!!
And we get to take all the good parts of "New Mexico" back.
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My comment was most likely not precise enough is all. You read it as me saying "All liberals" where I meant it to be "Some liberals", since I put neither word before liberals, I can understand the confusion.
Hooray for the Internet and its lack of clarity! Sorry to misconstrue your post like that, the way I had read it, it came off as grating, but it's much less so now that I see your intention. :)
Look at it this way, pres, you've been doing real well with words on our other thread.
yuk, yuk, yuk!
EDIT: see what happens when I don't use a reference book, spelled it wrong the first time.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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No, I will just skip to calling you the vicious little punk masquerading as a bully masquerading as a person capable of rational discussion.
As such, when it comes to being capable of a complete discussion do not tell lies. You will never engage in such as you are too caught up in your ego to do anything but indulge your venomous rage whenever anyone demonstrates an unwillingness to submit to your frenzied demands for total supremacy.
As for right wing talking points, I knew you would go for yet another pathetic lie to try and distract from the flaws of the object of your cult of personality. Again, that is typical of Obama supporters, and highly indicative of how damaging any administration of his would be.
That's going in my profile!
You know you love me.
Secret Spoilered Double Secret Edit (in Secret): Aw s%&@, now I'm a hypocrite for posting again. Oh well, looks like my presidential aspirations will have to be put on hold.
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And we get to take all the good parts of "New Mexico" back.Just no Oklahomans, or Coloradoans.Hmm...let's have a "native Texans only can be president" law.I'm voting for Obama and then applying for jobs in Alaska.Texas needs to secede, and then get Palin to be President.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeehaw!!!
New Mexico can keep hobbes, however...
{feigns shock}
You're practically a matrioshka doll with a pony on the outside.
{feigns shock}you ever been to hobbes? ;)
** spoiler omitted **
Sorry...feigned shock was for pres man. Nope. Taos, mostly...which was in the little strip going out from the panhandle, back in the day.
And then with three letters, pres completely changes the meaning of his post and leaves me confused.