Now when All heads use there breathweapon at once do you get a save VS each head or the total attack?
Hydras are jacked up.
Now when All heads use there breathweapon at once do you get a save VS each head or the total attack?
Each head is a separate attack, so each would allow a save. Right?
Now when All heads use there breathweapon at once do you get a save VS each head or the total attack?Each head is a separate attack, so each would allow a save. Right?
Thats what im wondering
So there are differnt opinions so what is it?
In my limited experience treating each separate head delivering a breath weapon on the same turn (3d6 per head) is a quick way to out right kill a perfectly healthy character without evasion. I think that you can easily take out almost the entire party in the first round of combat.
I think if you are going to count each head separately, then you should try to have them breath in different directions (even if there is noone in a direction). That way nobody has a chance of getting hit with all the heads, and probably will only be hit with at most 1/4 of them (the ones breathing in that direction)
Wow. So this thread made me look a little closer at how I've been running it VRs how the literal wording of it implies it should be run.
Me: Every 1d4 rounds all heads may breath (all as part of the same action). Each head does 3d6, save for half, but each head places its blast where it pleases. Makes energy resist 10 a nice thing to have, but protection from energy can get whittled down fast. Ok then
Book (and SRD): Every 1d4 rounds the hydra may unlease a jet of flame/cold. All heads participate in this action, which does 3d6 damager, per head! So a 10 headed Cryohydra (CR11) can pump out a 30d6 blast! Granted, its a little midget in area compared to cone of cold, but a CR 11 dishing out the equivalent of an empowered caster level 20 4th level spell is a bit much for me.
Ummmmm? Sorry all, I'm a big fan of clearing up rules misunderstandings, but im going to houserule in my understanding, as it just seems.....well.....not terribly overpowering?
So still this one is left up to interpitation I find that funny
The SRD says:
Pyrohydra
Huge Magical Beast (Fire)
These reddish hydras can breathe jets of fire 10 feet high, 10 feet wide, and 20 feet long. All heads breathe once every 1d4 rounds. Each jet deals 3d6 points of fire damage per head. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. The save DC is 10 + ½ hydra’s original number of heads + hydra’s Con modifier.
Fire attacks cannot prevent a pyrohydra’s stump from growing new heads (since a pyrohydra has immunity to fire), but 5 points of cold damage does.
Cryohydra
Huge Magical Beast (Cold)
These purplish hydras can breathe jets of frost 10 feet high, 10 feet wide, and 20 feet long. All heads breathe once every 1d4 rounds. Each jet deals 3d6 points of cold damage per head. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. The save DC is 10 + ½ hydra’s original number of heads + hydra’s Con modifier.
Cold attacks cannot prevent a cryohydra’s stump from growing new heads (since a cryohydra has immunity to cold), but 5 points of fire damage does.
Each head makes a separate breath attack doing 3d6, every 1d4 rounds, and a save is made for each individual breath attack.
It actually isn't open for interpretation. It doesn't say "All heads together make a single breath attack" or "The jet does 3d6 damage".
It does say "All heads breathe" and "Each jet does".
It actually isn't open for interpretation. It doesn't say "All heads together make a single breath attack" or "The jet does 3d6 damage".
It does say "All heads breathe" and "Each jet does".
I respectfully disagree. Let me begin by saying that I now realize that I've been reading this ability incorrectly since Day One. I thought the hydra breathed only one, single, 10x10x20-foot jet that dealt a mere 3d6 damage... not 3d6 per head! Now, that being said, I've looked over the wording much more carefully, and have drawn two new conclusions:
1) It's abysmally worded.
2) The hydra breathes only one, single, 10x10x20-foot jet, every 1d4 rounds, which deals 3d6 damage per head.
The first sentence states that the hydra can "breate jets." Unfortunately, that's extremely ambiguous. Does it mean multiple jets at once; or multiple jets over time, but only one at once (or even multiple jets over time and more than one at once)?
The next sentence states "All heads breathe once every 1d4 rounds." That's equally ambiguous. Does it mean all the heads breathe together to make one jet; or each of the heads breathes together but there are multiple jets; or each head breathes totally separately, even at different times, each with it's own 1d4-round timer?
But then comes the third sentence: "Each jet deals 3d6 points of... damage per head." Aha! Here we have the answer, even if it is far more implicit than we may have hoped. Note that "jet" is singular; so, each of the jets the hydra produces deals 3d6 damage per head. I think the most logical conclusion is thus that each of the heads is contributing 3d6 damage to one large, 10x10x20 blast, and that it can perform this synchronized feat of destruction once every 1d4 rounds. It seems to be the most logical connection of the presented elements and concepts.
The notion that it breathes multiple jets that each do 3d6 damage and can be independently aimed is, unfortunately, dead wrong. The rules clearly state that each jet deals 3d6 damage per head. One could argue that the hydra can breathe multiple separate jets, and each one deals 3d6 damage per head. But this implies that a CR 6 five-headed pyrohydra can simultaneously produce five jets each dealing 15d6 fire damage, for a total output of 75d6. I hope we can all agree that sounds just a smidgeon off.
Although I freely admit, even what I'm forwarding as the "correct" interpretation posists that the same hydra will have an output of 15d6 damage every 1d4 rounds, which still seems way off for a CR 6 creature. But it is what the RA(p)W, or Rules As (poorly) Written, say.
Does anyone know of an errata for pyro- and cryohydras?
Also, what happens if you cast Glitterdust on it, or Blindness? Does each head get a separate save? If a head is blinded can it still take part in the jet of fire / cold, or would it be off target? Does attempting to sever a blinded head provoke an AoO from a sighted head?
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Heh. And we haven't even gotten into how you handle hydra AoOs yet. I'm hoping PF RPG rewords it so the "sane" way is used (1 AoO per opportunity, able to make number of heads AoOs per round).
Hehe. Fun memories of full-plate wearing Ogres trying to spider climb over an underground river, unknowing a Hydra was hidden underwater. Near death by drowning, near death by hit point loss.
I would rather the Hydra be interpreted in the most powerful way possible, but then bump the CR up accordingly. But that's just one Hydra-Fan's opinion.
The AoO situation really needs clarification. Personally, I run each head as a separate creature occupying the same space. Each head gets AoOs and each head has combat reflexes. It is very bad to provoke near a hydra.
As for the breath attack, its not official, but there is an article for Monster Mayhem by Owen Stevens about multiheaded creatures:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20020621a
In it he says that each head gets its own breath attack, or any kind of special attack for that matter.
That's actually the more balanced option, because then the hydra (read: the DM) at least has the option to split the damage and not totally annihilate any poor schmuck of a PC who gets caught in the blast. But the actual entry in the MM is, again, horribly worded. I remain confident in my interpretation of what it does say; what it should say is a who other matter, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to be houseruling the damage down in my games. It's currently so powerful that I wouldn't feel comfortable using the creatures as much as I'd like to (since hydras are one of my favorite monsters).
I agree with Saern's interpretation of the wording, and also with Owen Stevens' erratum (err... "alternate interpretation"). The description implies one thing, but as Repairman Jack et al. point out, it's easiest to just treat each head like a separate critter.
(since hydras are one of my favorite monsters).You sir have made a friend here. Us hydraniacs need to stick together!
Oh, yes. Back in the days when I DMed for a bunch of power-gamers, hydras were about the only melee threat which could actually damage them significantly at low levels. I've had a fondness for the critters ever since! >:)