What exactly do you mean? Like, the Necromancy wizard specialization ability or...?
It allows wizards to control 8HD per level of undead. Meaning, whenever a wizard is required to determine how many undead said wizard can control (in the case of create undead, summon undead, etc), they use 8HD/level.
It does not give them the cleric ability to turn or rebuke undead, nor does grant any innate ability to create undead.
Does that answer your question?
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It allows wizards to control 8HD per level of undead. Meaning, whenever a wizard is required to determine how many undead said wizard can control (in the case of create undead, summon undead, etc), they use 8HD/level.
It does not give them the cleric ability to turn or rebuke undead, nor does grant any innate ability to create undead.
Does that answer your question?
A little. If I understand what you are saying, You sould still have to be able to cast 7th level spells to cast control undead but you could control a whole lot more than a wizard who is not a necromancer.
A little. If I understand what you are saying, You sould still have to be able to cast 7th level spells to cast control undead but you could control a whole lot more than a wizard who is not a necromancer.It allows wizards to control 8HD per level of undead. Meaning, whenever a wizard is required to determine how many undead said wizard can control (in the case of create undead, summon undead, etc), they use 8HD/level.
It does not give them the cleric ability to turn or rebuke undead, nor does grant any innate ability to create undead.
Does that answer your question?
You got it. You still have to be able to cast the spell to get the undead.
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You got it. You still have to be able to cast the spell to get the undead.A little. If I understand what you are saying, You sould still have to be able to cast 7th level spells to cast control undead but you could control a whole lot more than a wizard who is not a necromancer.It allows wizards to control 8HD per level of undead. Meaning, whenever a wizard is required to determine how many undead said wizard can control (in the case of create undead, summon undead, etc), they use 8HD/level.
It does not give them the cleric ability to turn or rebuke undead, nor does grant any innate ability to create undead.
Does that answer your question?
No offence intended, but it seems that the necromancer (specialists wizard) ability is useless till you're actually able to cast the Control Undead spell...
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True, I would give them some kind of chance to gain control of undead even at lower levels.No offence intended, but it seems that the necromancer (specialists wizard) ability is useless till you're actually able to cast the Control Undead spell...
You don't have to wait quite that long. Animate dead is a 4th level spell.
You still have to wait until 7th level wizard, but it's a little better than waiting until 13th level for control undead.
StuffNo offence intended, but it seems that the necromancer (specialists wizard) ability is useless till you're actually able to cast the Control Undead spell...
Hey none taken. I actually like the rule. Also, when taken with cleric levels it is also very powerful. ymmv
EDIT: Yeah, and remember, when a necromancer can cast 4th level Animate Dead, they will be able to have 30+ HD in undead, as opposed to something like 5HD for a normal wizard. (Don't have the books with me so i can't check the exact numbers)
It should be noted that the pool of undead from animate dead you can control is different from the pool of undead you can otherwise control. So typically a cleric can control 1HD of undead per CL but *also* 4HD/CL of personally animated undead.
So the Necromancer wizard can control 8HD/level of undead *and* 4HD/CL of personally animated undead because of the animate dead spell. There's no reason to think overflow from the animated undead automatically move into his personal control pool, but its a reasonable interpretation.
Ah! Thanks for clarity Squirreloid. I'll remember this for the necromancer in my party :)
Humm I will be playing on of these myself and I have a player that wishes to play one. So to me it's pointless ability and the only one that's useless for 7 levels at the lest. So I was thinking they should have a way to gain control as well give them the cleric channel ability but not modify it in such a way that all it does is make the undead save if they pass there unaffected if they fail they fail under the necromancer control.
If this isn't done you might as well move this to an 8th level ability since it's pointless before then. So you give up 2 schools for no real gain.
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Humm I will be playing on of these myself and I have a player that wishes to play one. So to me it's pointless ability and the only one that's useless for 7 levels at the lest. So I was thinking they should have a way to gain control as well give them the cleric channel ability but not modify it in such a way that all it does is make the undead save if they pass there unaffected if they fail they fail under the necromancer control.
If this isn't done you might as well move this to an 8th level ability since it's pointless before then. So you give up 2 schools for no real gain.
How's about an ability, as a close range burst, you make some sort of caster level/know(religion)/spellcraft check, and that's how many HD of undead you gain control of. With a Will save to prevent the control, of course.
Summon undead is not core that I know of so that does not help.If you gain a power at level one it needs to work at level one. If not replace it and give them something else. It like saying a fighter can use any weapon..but cant use two handed ones till level 8..he know how he just cant do it yet. In other words they can control undead or they can not. The power says they can yet most people think they can not I say they could but if not then it needs replace since it is a wasted ability.
How's about an ability, as a close range burst, you make some sort of caster level/know(religion)/spellcraft check, and that's how many HD of undead you gain control of. With a Will save to prevent the control, of course.
yeah i was thinking caster level check kinda may be 15'+5'per 2 levels {DC is 10+caster level+ability] as a will save. Hd you control is 8hd per level Lower HD creatures always count first.
Example: Ungrand is a 5TH level necromancer Int 16 so his Range is 25' DC 18.or something along them lines. may be 8HD a level is too much but somewhere along that line
So the Necromancer wizard can control 8HD/level of undead *and* 4HD/CL of personally animated undead because of the animate dead spell. There's no reason to think overflow from the animated undead automatically move into his personal control pool, but its a reasonable interpretation.
My interpretation is that they're saying that a necromancer specialist can control 8 HD/level of undead created via Animate Dead instead of 4 HD/level (i.e. the Animate Dead pool is doubled in size).
But it's extremely unclear, and the language should have been cleared up a long time ago (in the Alpha stages).
Actually, I wish they'd just get rid of that power (which is basically a hack to allow NPC necromancers to control a dungeon full of skeletons, IMO) and put in something else.
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One possible solution would be to have the Command Undead (2nd level) spell allow a Necromancer to permanantly take control of undead he's affected by the spell, so long as they are within his 'control pool' limits.
Even then, the Specialist Class power is utterly worthless for *two* levels (instead of six), which still kinda burns.
There needs to be a 1st level Animate Skeleton spell that creates only a single skeleton and takes an hour (or eight hours, whatever) to cast, so that the starting Necromancer can actually have some undead. Without a 'control pool,' a non-Necromancer casting this spell would just create a free-willed Skeleton, which might not be a worthwhile use of time...
At 2nd level, an Animate Zombie spell could be added as well, with the 4th level Animate Dead spell being for when you want to animate a bunch of people at once, and in a more timely fashion.
Even then, the undead control pool, no matter when it becomes usable, isn't terribly useful for those whacky Necromancers who don't want to have dead people following them around.
Thought;
Perhaps the Necromancer Specialist power could be something flexible and usable by either the naughty undead-lovin' Necromancers and the so-called 'White' Necromancers, who just like throwing death-magic around but don't go out for the whole necrophilia angle.
A touch attack that inflicts negative energy damage to a living target, heals an undead one *and temporarily animates a corpse* would be the ideal solution. The potential HD of the resultant zombie would be based on it's size and the Necromancer's class level (while the healing / negative energy damage would also be class level-based), and it would only last for 1 minute per point of Int Mod or something, then fall inert and have to be 'recharged' with a new negative energy touch (if not destroyed in that time), with the Necromancer only having one such 'zuvembie' at a time and it existing outside of control pool limits (once those matter). The Necromancer thus has the touch attack negative energy attack, and, once a foe dies, he can take a standard action to animate the corpse to serve him for the rest of the fight (and possibly keep touching it inappropriately for use throughout the evening, until it gets reduced to zero hit points and he can't 'heal' it anymore with his negative energy touch).
The touch-range limitation would make it less spiffy than some of the ranged options (like the Acid Darts), but the animation (and healing your own undead) options would help to make up for that. The 'White' Necromancers wouldn't use the animate bodies (or heal undead) options, but they would still have a negative energy touch, unlike the current Specialist option, which is completely unpalatable to them.
