I decided to make things slower paced in XP terms. However I found out that the slow pace IS WAY Too slow.
Between level 12 and 13 there are 125 000 Xp points of difference. Each level 12 monster is worth 19200 that, divided among 5 players is 3840 each, meaning that they have to face 32 encounters to level up. With an average of 3 encounters per session it takes 10 sessions to level up given that each one is so heavy on combat or reward able activities. I am using level 12 monsters as an average, because not every encounter is challenging or easy.
After all 10 sessions for most players that play weekly is worth 2 and a half months of play,
I would like to know what is the felling with other advancement rates, also what is the equivalent rate of the standard 3.5 system.
Also if my math is wrong in some place. :P
Hmmm, perhaps you should use the individual XP encounter columns. That way with a group of 5 players you hack that number down to about 26 encounters.
125,000 additional xp to hit level 12
A CR 12 monster for a group of 4-5 pc's is worth 4,800xp per party member which is 960 more than if you went by group xp and divided. Which would make it just over 26 12th level encounters which I think fits a slow campaign. Seeing as I've never met a GM who only puts PC's through encounters of their level you could easily narrow this down significantly by giving them encounters of levels 13-17, CR 17 encounters (if I recall correctly) are the max CR/EL an encounter should be for a PC (if you go with the +4 levels being the highest encounter level for a party of adventurers). So, with that in mind as well as roleplaying xp you can easily give the PC's total number of encounters down to 20 (which I'd say qualifies as slow but not too slow to advance a level).
Should that not be slow enough for you use the medium chart. I'm doing that with my group in the Rise of the Runelords Campaign. They're entering an adventure at 6th level when they're supposed to be 7th and that's using the individual xp column as well as giving them RP xp, them going through every encounter in the modules, and a few additional 'random' encounters tossed in for xp boosting (and RP boosting) purposes. So with all that and the medium thread they're still a level behind.
I decided to make things slower paced in XP terms. However I found out that the slow pace IS WAY Too slow.
Between level 12 and 13 there are 125 000 Xp points of difference. Each level 12 monster is worth 19200 that, divided among 5 players is 3840 each, meaning that they have to face 32 encounters to level up. With an average of 3 encounters per session it takes 10 sessions to level up given that each one is so heavy on combat or reward able activities. I am using level 12 monsters as an average, because not every encounter is challenging or easy.
After all 10 sessions for most players that play weekly is worth 2 and a half months of play,
I would like to know what is the felling with other advancement rates, also what is the equivalent rate of the standard 3.5 system.
Also if my math is wrong in some place. :P
I don't quite get it -- you're complaining that "slow" is slow? Truth in advertising at its best!
Here's the approximate rates:
Slow progression = 30 encounters per level
Medium progression = 20 encounters per level
Fast progression = 13.3 encounters per level
"Fast" is the equivalent of 3.5's advancement method. So pick which one suits your campaign style the best.
I chose medium. Mainly because I know how powerful my PC's can get. In the RotRL campaign they made short work of two enemies who have been considered too powerful for most parties of the level they were at. At 2nd level they took on and took out the Imp from Burnt Offerings, she gave them a hard time though but wasn't nearly as devastating as it had been listed for other parties. At level 6 (or maybe they were level 5) they had some levels and items to help them increase their respective power so they took on and took out the boss of The Skinsaw Murders in only a few rounds of combat. She hurt them but I wouldn't say she was a challenge either. That's why I think I'm going to stick with medium advancement and avoid any further boosts to their xp pool.
I think main reason why PCs kill "though" guys so easily is waaay to much magical items and gear.
Example: I made a 20 lv fighter with only 200,000 gp of gear. I went one on one melee with Great Wrym Red Dragon and kill him in 3 rounds. With no critical hits.
So if you want your PCs to be "in the middle" and not over-powered give them half treasure they are supposed to get.
by the end of level 1 500gp, not 1,000gp. by the end of level 2 1,000gp, not 2,000 etc.
Or if you are playing pathfinder 500gp by the end of first, 1,500gp by the end of 2nd etc.
Well, one of the weak points of Rise of the Runelords is that the module series has very little in the way of powerful magical gear. That and in my experience magical items are just icing on the cake. My players tend to beat tougher creatures because of smart builds. In the case of the first battle it was some of creative thinking and the fact that there's a power creep with PRPG.
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In my opinion Slow, Medium, and Fast are actually probably best geared toward the reverse style of game play.
Slow if you're doing A LOT of fitting.
Medium if you're doing a good balance of fighting and roleplaying.
Fast if you're doing a lot of roleplaying.
Why? Because if you're doing a lot of roleplaying, you're going to have fewer encounters, so there won't be a lot of XP going around.. not as must as if you raw a dungeon crawl in the same amount of time. So the XP from the few encounters you have are worth more and roleplaying rewards are sugar coating. It also allows you to have tough challenges in roleplaying, since the XP has more meaning.
A slow allows you to throw 100s of monsters at the group and they don't advance fast. Meaning you could do a long dungeon crawl through an endless dungeon and not hit any level problems or do a siege adventure where the PCs are defending (or attack) a village/fortress. Lots of monsters and can keep them all low level. :)
In any case, I wouldn't run any premade module in anything but fast, because if they expect your party to go from level 1-5 and the party is only level 3 by the end of the adventure... there's going to be problems. However, you could modify adventures heavily.. the attack on sandpoint with 20 more goblins could be fun... but you'd need to get around the whole rest problem. Perhaps borrow the minion idea from 4e.
I think main reason why PCs kill "though" guys so easily is waaay to much magical items and gear.
Example: I made a 20 lv fighter with only 200,000 gp of gear. I went one on one melee with Great Wrym Red Dragon and kill him in 3 rounds. With no critical hits.
So if you want your PCs to be "in the middle" and not over-powered give them half treasure they are supposed to get.
by the end of level 1 500gp, not 1,000gp. by the end of level 2 1,000gp, not 2,000 etc.
Or if you are playing pathfinder 500gp by the end of first, 1,500gp by the end of 2nd etc.
How in the hell are you killing a great wyrm red dragon in three rounds with no crits? Just exactly what kind of gear are we talking about here? If you just happen to have a bane weapon it's not really a fair playtest.
Anyhow you have to consider that PathFinder Experience rules are different from 3 edition.
In 3 ed. you get exsperience mostly by killing monsters, in pathfinder you also get experience by completing missions assigned ( suggested is the xp of 2 encounters of the same leven of the group for compleeting a long mission ) You get also individual or group xp for actions, ideas, solutions to difficult problems and so on, not only for fight, so even with a middle or slow progression the difference in advance time is not so big ... besides, most players like to get experience for other things and not only fight, fight, fight, so i think Pathfinder xp rules are a n improvement :)|
I think is important to clarify, (unless it is And I did not read) to what old 3,5 system is related the pacing. Because my first idea was that medium pace was the 3,5 equivalent.
My main concern when I made the change was that my players group have many healers and heavy fighters both range and melee. So the party works pretty well in most circumstances. So I ended up with higher level encounter that they breeze even without lots of magic items, and they started to advance at higher pace than the story. Therefore it became evident that Sub plot about thugs robbing people in forest was not appropriated for the wonder team! (Ranger, fighter, cleric, bard, and a weird soulknife) specially since some areas are not fit to be level to the players, in this case there is no reason for forest thugs to be 12 level with 2 cold damage swords. (I mean, why should be robbing farmers, they can sell one sword and live happy for 10 years, also, the example is not real just to get the idea)
Any way! Thanks a lot for the clarification on the pace. I will try to reward them more for roll play and skill use. If that proves infective I will switch to medium.