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Hello all!
I'm thinking of a trial at least for Tsuto, and since one of the players is a priest of Abadar I figure this would give him a possibility to explore that side of his character.
Anyone have any ideas about running a "fantasy" trial? Any adventures or articles you have come across that offers ideas for this sort of thing?
Thanks!
E
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hello all!
I'm thinking of a trial at least for Tsuto, and since one of the players is a priest of Abadar I figure this would give him a possibility to explore that side of his character.
Anyone have any ideas about running a "fantasy" trial? Any adventures or articles you have come across that offers ideas for this sort of thing?
Thanks!
E
Gah, post eaten!
There's actually a long running thread for the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP dealing with a similar situation. Be warned that it's very spoiler heavy in case you plan on playing in that one.
I can't say I've ever seen articles or adventures explicitly dealing with trials, though they provide excellent roleplaying opportunities, especially if the PCs have strong feelings one way or the other about the defendants.
Sandpoint's laws are certainly going to be less harsh that Korvosa's as presented in that city's guide, but it may not matter much depending on how much damage Nualia and Tsuto manage to do. I'd recommend looking into the "Upping Nualia's presence" thread as well for ways to fill the PCs in on their history, should you decide that should play into their trial.
You might want to edit the names out of the thread title too, replacing them with "Villain" and adding a spoiler tag, if it's not too late.
Ah, links:
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Don't forget that Sandpoint doesn't really have a courthouse and is under the jurisdiction of Magnimar, sort of.
I just did a trial in Magnimar. The PCs were accused of being the "star killers" (ie the serial killers leaving the Sihedron rune on their victims. Justice Ironbriar presided over the case, and the were able to call witnesses and present the facts as they saw them. Once they were done, Justice Ironbriar announced his decision, sentencing the PCs to death.
He might not be so harsh on Tsuto and Nualia in your campaign as he was on the PCs in mine, of course.
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When I have run fantasy trials, I've usually held the following as standard procedure:
1. Guards are posted to confiscate all weapons and magic items. A low-level wizard is on hand to detect magic. Not foolproof, but for most cases it works. Except that one time when a PC used Nystul's magic aura on gloves of storing to sneak in a weapon.
2. The witness stand is surrounded by a permanent zone of truth.
3. Most penalties are severe, usually beginning at hefty fines and ending with death, in varying degrees of permanence and cruelty.
When I have run fantasy trials, I've usually held the following as standard procedure:
1. Guards are posted to confiscate all weapons and magic items. A low-level wizard is on hand to detect magic. Not foolproof, but for most cases it works. Except that one time when a PC used Nystul's magic aura on gloves of storing to sneak in a weapon.
2. The witness stand is surrounded by a permanent zone of truth.
3. Most penalties are severe, usually beginning at hefty fines and ending with death, in varying degrees of permanence and cruelty.
My PCs actually brought Ripnugget back alive and wanted him tried. Just for giggles, I drafted up an outline of criminal procedure rules for Magnimar. (Spoiler tag used just because of length)
Criminal Procedure in Magnimar
All criminal matters not resolved on the spot by the militia are handled by the Justice Court. One Justice is assigned to preside over any given case. Trials are Judicial and non-adversarial. The court is comprised of thirteen justices—led by Lord Justice Bayl Argentine. In exceptional cases, a panel of Justices, up to the entire Court, may be convened to hear an especially contentious matter. Justices serve for life, and may only be relieved upon the order of the Lord Mayor, as confirmed by the Council of Ushers, on the basis of gross malfeasance or abuse of public funds.
The Presiding Justice may seek and consider any evidence he sees fit, compelling witnesses to appear in his court on threat of fine or imprisonment.
The Presiding Justice may, at his discretion, seek the advice of experts, who will be assigned by the Court and compensated based on a published rate schedule.
Defendants and Witnesses may not be compelled to provide any testimony which would tend to incriminate them, but their refusal to answer any question may be considered by the Presiding Justice in relation to the weight given to their testimony.
Defendants and Witness can be asked to submit to magical effects, such as Zone of Truth, which shall be administered by a member of the clergy of one of the City’s recognized churches or via item (e.g., Candle of Truth). The witness may refuse to subject himself to the spell, but his refusal may be considered in relation to the weight given his testimony.
The defendant may call any witnesses it desires, but must bear all costs for securing witnesses who are not requested by the Court. In the event a witness is deemed unavailable, the Court may refuse to hear the witness’s testimony. If a witness’s testimony is deemed by the Presiding Justice to be irrelevant or redundant, the Presiding Justice may subject the defendant and his council to sanctions in the form of fines.
Any witness may be ordered to produce such physical and documentary evidence as is in its possession. In the case of evidence with substantial monetary value (greater than 1 GP) taken from a witness who was in lawful possession, the Court is required to provide reasonable compensation.
Defendants who are noblemen, official representatives of certain recognized organizations (trade guilds, major churches, etc) or who are representatives of foreign governments are entitled to be represented by council, at their own expense.
The Presiding Justice is the final decider of facts in all matters presented before him. The factual findings of the Court are not subject to review. Alleged errors of Law, errors of procedure, or gross malfeasance may be brought before the Council of Ushers, which may hear or refuse to hear such claims in its sole discretion.
The exception to this rule is that in the case of any Varisian defendant, complaints of injustice may be brought before the Varisian Council by the defendant or the defendant’s next of kin.
The Presiding Justice may decide, in his sole discretion, to refer matters to another appropriate body, such as the Varisian Council or an appropriate Ecclesiastical court.
Hello all!
I'm thinking of a trial at least for Tsuto, and since one of the players is a priest of Abadar I figure this would give him a possibility to explore that side of his character.
Anyone have any ideas about running a "fantasy" trial? Any adventures or articles you have come across that offers ideas for this sort of thing?
Thanks!
EGah, post eaten!
There's actually a long running thread for the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP dealing with a similar situation. Be warned that it's very spoiler heavy in case you plan on playing in that one.
I can't say I've ever seen articles or adventures explicitly dealing with trials, though they provide excellent roleplaying opportunities, especially if the PCs have strong feelings one way or the other about the defendants.
Sandpoint's laws are certainly going to be less harsh that Korvosa's as presented in that city's guide, but it may not matter much depending on how much damage Nualia and Tsuto manage to do. I'd recommend looking into the "Upping Nualia's presence" thread as well for ways to fill the PCs in on their history, should you decide that should play into their trial.
You might want to edit the names out of the thread title too, replacing them with "Villain" and adding a spoiler tag, if it's not too late.
Ah, links:
Aye, I've been keeping an eye on those threads, and they will be extremely useful for transmitting their backstories.
Ack, didn't think about the names in the subject before it was too late ... grr. I'll ask Gary about that. Thank you for the head's up.
Thank you for the response!
Don't forget that Sandpoint doesn't really have a courthouse and is under the jurisdiction of Magnimar, sort of.
Aye, though I am a little torn about this. I imagine only certain crimes would be adjudicated in Magnimar as opposed to Sandpoint.
What would be the justification for shipping serious criminals to Magnimar? Seems like Zantus would be able to cast zone of truth and Vorvashali could handle detect magic, etc. Perhaps it is just part of a general tradition of control over vassel cities?
I really want to introduce both the conflict between sending them to Magnimar and the desire of some Sandpoint citizens to handle "justice" themselves, and to involve Ironbriar in some way. But I want to avoid what may seem like an "artificial" reason to send them to Magnimar.
Just thinking out loud
Thank you for the response!
Just remembered, there's an insane asylum near Sandpoint. Should the PCs wind up being sympathetic to her plight, that could be an angle to play with.
It's not a very good asylum though. Security would have to be beefed up a lot to maintain her captivity alone too.
Aye, that's another option - a companion for Grayst, perhaps :)
Thank you for the response!
Also remember that being a priest of Abadar doesn't mean that you can legally judge people
What makes you think that? I would think that in areas that are in need of a judge that a priest of Abadar would be an ideal fit. This is why I'm thinking that the Abadar pc would provide the option of a trial in Sandpoint without the need to go to Magnimar.
Thank you Jal and Monkey. That info will be very useful.
I imagine only certain crimes would be adjudicated in Magnimar as opposed to Sandpoint.
Sure. Only certain trials need a full, formal court case, after all. The rest can just be summarily decided by the local sheriff and/or mayor.
What would be the justification for shipping serious criminals to Magnimar? Seems like Zantus would be able to cast zone of truth and Vorvashali could handle detect magic, etc. Perhaps it is just part of a general tradition of control over vassel cities?
I think that the tradition is part of it, but I also think that most people wouldn't want to be judged by just any old person who can cast spells. The law exists to guarantee a fair trial (at least in theory), and that doesn't mean allowing any wandering person who can cast spells (or can bluff people into thinking that they can cast spells) is allowed to serve as a judge.
I really want to introduce both the conflict between sending them to Magnimar and the desire of some Sandpoint citizens to handle "justice" themselves, and to involve Ironbriar in some way. But I want to avoid what may seem like an "artificial" reason to send them to Magnimar.
I think that the fact that Sandpoint doesn't have a legal court means that it's not artificial to send the accused on to the nearest one, which would be in Magnimar. Tsuto is a noble, after all, and could demand the rights of being tried by people who haven't known him and judged him from his birth. If nothing else, the Scarnettis would have made sure that such privileges existed for the nobility. :)
Also remember that being a priest of Abadar doesn't mean that you can legally judge peopleWhat makes you think that? I would think that in areas that are in need of a judge that a priest of Abadar would be an ideal fit. This is why I'm thinking that the Abadar pc would provide the option of a trial in Sandpoint without the need to go to Magnimar.
There are lots of people in the world who are qualified to be a judge (in the sense that they have the training and experience) who are still not permitted to act as a judge in a criminal case. A proper legal authority needs to give that right to an individual, usually after years of service in the local judicial system as a lawyer. Being qualified just plain doesn't give you the legal right to do it (thankfully).
Maybe "in areas that are in need of a judge" they might be desperate enough to nominate any old person who they deem qualified, but in this case there's a full judicial system available just a day's journey away.
Good points tbug. This discussion has already helped tremendously.
I suppose what I was thinking was that a 4th lvl priest of Abadar, and recent hero of Sandpoint would not be just any old person. But the push of tradition, and politics would be quite strong. Especially as you had mentioned, the nobles would probably see that it was in their benefit that a fellow noble be shipped to Magnimar for "proper" justice.
I'm going to think on this a bit. I have until our session day, Sunday. As of right now I'm thinking that a number of locals will want to "string up!" Tsuto and Nualia, whilst the nobles/merchants will want them sent to Magnimar for justice. The Mayor and the Sheriff will be caught in the middle, and will most likely ask the assistance of the hero priest of Abadar (PC).
Thank you!