Am I the only one who's slightly dissapointed that Queen Iloesa didn't transform into a half-dragon, (either through template or 'supernaturally gained' levels in dragon disciple) or even a full blue dragon at some point in the campaign (climactic final fight, anyone?)
It feels like a bit of a bait and switch that the PCs get all of these clues to put together about Iloesa channeling the power of a dragon's spirit and the undying essence of his artifact-like bones, but nothing comes of it (except the aftermath of the final battle.) The deal with Hell and castle full of devils is evocative and cool and I support it, but bonding her spirit with an eyrines seemed kind of "Um... isn't she already supposed to be spirit bonded with a bit of Karvoson's soul? Why isn't she getting any dragony coolness out of this?"
If/when I run this path, I'm considering changing that to bring a bit of Dragon-Queen into the mix.
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I'm also mildly concerned about her focus on mind control as an offensive tactic. Grant you, she's got those greater dispel magics, but it occurs to me that a party with sufficient insulation against mind effects might be a big set back for the Queen, since neither she, nor her Iloesa clone squad (which are awesome,) have any other style of assault. By the same token, for a party with low will saves... the battle might be over really fast.
Y'know, I kind of agree. I don't have #12 yet, but as described it struck me as kind of odd that this devilbonding thing would show up.
I'll just have to judge when I get my hands on the book myself, but I'll sure be keeping your "half-dragon" idea in mind when I do.
I originally thought, when Jacobs dropped that Ileosa was devil-bonded in a thread much like this, that she would be bonded to Kazavon directly, as some sort of unique devil-dragon.
But I've come around to the erinyes-bonding thing. Ileosa is a woman who's become so evil she doesn't mind cleaving away parts of her soul and absorbing others for greater power. Sort of like (if you'll pardon the analogy), Voldemort in the more recent Harry Potter books. I hope to play this disregard for her immortal soul up, with Harrow references to "the marriage of multiple evils" and "Ileosa the thrice-souled".
As for the reliance on mind control--greater dispel magic works wonders, and the more reliable mind blank is probably going to be rare compared to magic circle vs. X. Magic circles only prevent direct control, so there's nothing stopping Ileosa from just confusing them and letting them hack each other apart. But, since my game uses all sorts of non-core rules, I will be rewriting her spell-list to incorporate some gems from PHB2 and Spell Compendium.
I don't have anything inherently against the deal-with-the-devils thing, so much as a lack of the Korvoson influence thing. A large portion of the Path is about trying to figure out where she's drawing her newfound power from, and when it's discovered she's been 'infected' by a portion of the spirit of an ancient dragon... and not just any dragon, like, what is being played up as one of Golarion's Big Legendary Uber Dragons, so evil and powerful that he cannot lie quiet in his grave... we expect (or at least, I do) to confront a woman flush with draconic power that's too strong not to change her.
To sum up: She certainly can be eyrines-bound as well, but when build-up's been implying, "Oh no, the Queen is fused with a powerful-evil-dragon-spirit giving her enhanced power and wickedness!" I expect to see that draconic influence/might in the final conflict with her.
Heck, his bones are strong enough to be artifacts that require special methods to destroy... that's a lot of oomph not to show through on her.
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The cut-scene-esque bit after the final battle, where the pool tries to clone Korvoson from the crown of teeth... is cool, but it's not enough, especially since I expect the PCs to do exactly what they need to stop it.
Wow. I feel let down.
I think the problem is that we're told Kazavon is a dragon, so we think the resolution has to do with dragons. Instead, it's about Zon-Kuthon and Kazavon is a disciple of that god who just happens to be a dragon.
Different people will have different mileage with things like that. For me, I'd prefer a more streamlined mythology for a setting. Otherwise, it can turn into a series of lame oneupmanship. "OK, the secret behind this adventure is an evil cultist of a dark god. Who's a dragon! Who's also a jedi! And part of the Aqua Teen Hunger Force!"
To some people, that is the utter definition of coolness. To others, it just becomes lame.
Not having read Crown of Fangs yet, I can't comment on how it'll actually seem to me, but I'll admit that when I first read Edge of Anarchy's introduction, I definitely expected a very draconic centered campaign mythology.
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I finished reading PF12 this weekend, and I am also a bit disappointed that she did not turn into a dragon or something similar. I was expecting/hoping that when she was finally killed, a dragon would be born from the remains, a final sacrifice to bring the dragon back.
With that aside, PF12 was excellent. The castle was amazing. Definitely one of my favorites of the first 12 PF's.
I was expecting/hoping that when she was finally killed, a dragon would be born from the remains, a final sacrifice to bring the dragon back.
The danger there, though, is that this was already done with that one priestess, Andaisin, in 'Seven Days to the Grave'.
Based on some comments in another thread, I think the coolest outcome for the final throwdown with Ileosa is for the PCs to fight against an unstoppable dragon spirit acting through the Queen, holding the beast off long enough to complete the ritual to separate them. And then have the Queen stab someone in the neck 'cause she actually *is* evil and not just possessed.
It's going to be a while before I get to read the actual conclusion for myself, though.
Creative Director
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One of the primary goals for "Crimson Throne" was to present the villain in the very first adventure and develop her throughout the course of the entire campaign. We've had (rightfully) some criticisim that in previous adventure paths, the main bad guy wasn't apparent until partway through the adventure, and in some cases you can go through the majority of the adventure without knowing much about the main baddie at all.
With "Crimson Throne" we wanted the PCs to be expecting a fight with an evil human queen, since that's what they'd been facing in growing stages throughout the entire campaign. That said...
With "Crimson Throne" we wanted the PCs to be expecting a fight with an evil human queen, since that's what they'd been facing in growing stages throughout the entire campaign. That said...** spoiler omitted **
You make a good point, sir, in underlining the difference between what we as the GMs and readers know, and what the players know. We know draconic spirit mojo's in her from the very start. The Players and PCs don't. And something Crimson Throne did well throughout, is develop the main villain strongly from start to finish... a marked improvement over Runelords (Which I still enjoyed!) That's a definite strength of the Path, and good job on it. They know the Queen. They've probably grown to hate her.
That said...
By the failed attempt on her life, they've figured out somethin' ain't right 'bout her. They might even think she's undead, or not-human, considering the surviving-a-point-blank-headshot thing. The way that's described, it isn't about turning a solid attack into a grazing shot through combat skill and reflex. It's about her taking a crossbow bolt to the brain-pan and not minding much.
By the end of the fourth adventure, the Shoanti should give them the scoop on the possessed bones of the dragon that refused to die. By part five, they're going after the magical sword that slew the titan beast (the Dragonslayer, one might say,) to use it on the Queen, who's obviously under the influence of said dragon's spirit. So... by 2/3s of the way through the adventure, I think my players are going to start expecting some draconic power involved with her. Possibly even a bit of undead stuff too.
By the failed attempt on her life, they've figured out somethin' ain't right 'bout her.
In fact, for my party (we just finish the first book (so Pathfinder #6), of course they think that there's something wrong about her since they met her during the "execution" of Trinia and the intervention of BlackJack. To see her well-dressed, proud of her, they were disappointed but they think that she is not well advice. Someone must influence her but they don't know who is it.
Between Pathfinder #6 and #7, I made a story to let them search for clues and so on. During this party I decided to introduce Arkona family by linking them to Devargo (who was defeat during this party). They, now, know the name of Arkona and suppose that this family try to destroy Korvosa and perhaps advice the Queen, so....The next party will be in 2 weeks! I wish to be at that date to make they play for this wonderful campaign!
Thanks Paizo :-)