4e half-orcs

[Tatterdemalion]

I need rules-legal half-orcs, and I need them now.

Of course, while we have to wait, my campaign can't. Has anyone given this any thought? It's also occurred to me that half-orcs are mongrels -- even if I use a non-rules-legal version now, it's no big deal if it deviates from WotC's vision.

Thanks.

[Scott Betts]

Tatterdemalion wrote:

I need rules-legal half-orcs, and I need them now.

Of course, while we have to wait, my campaign can't. Has anyone given this any thought? It's also ocurred to me that half-orcs are mongrels -- even if I use a non-rules-legal version now, it's no big deal if it deviates from WotC's vision.

Thanks.

I think the toughest part of coming up with a new player race is deciding on a flavorful, thematic racial power. Have in your mind a vision of what you want half-orcs to embody in your campaign world and use that as inspiration for their abilities. Orcs in D&D tend to be savagely militaristic, and half-orcs definitely display a portion of that. Then again, they are also equally human. Humans tend to embody resilience and adaptability. I suggest finding some middle ground between the two and working from there.

I also think it's a good idea to, once the official half-orc stats are released, give your players the option of switching their half-orcs over to the new racial stats or sticking with the old ones. If they feel like it would be interesting to try the new abilities, awesome. If they're worried that it will change their character's flavor, then they get to stick with the racial traits they've got. Everyone wins, and like you pointed out, half-orcs are mongrels so it doesn't really upset the game's sense of immersion.

[CPEvilref]

Tatterdemalion wrote:

I need rules-legal half-orcs, and I need them now.

Of course, while we have to wait, my campaign can't. Has anyone given this any thought? It's also ocurred to me that half-orcs are mongrels -- even if I use a non-rules-legal version now, it's no big deal if it deviates from WotC's vision.

Thanks.

Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution

Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light

Half-Orc Defence Bonus: +1 Fort
+2 Endurance Checks
Half-Orc Fury: When Blooded gets a +1 bonus to damage (increases to +2 bonus to damage at 21st level)

Can Choose from Human Feats

Give them Warrior's Surge from the Orc racial ability in the MM

How's that grab you?

[Tatterdemalion]

CPEvilref:

Thanks.

I'm thinking of returning darkvision to orcs (and half-orcs), and imposing a -2 Intelligence (WotC's newfound political-correctness be damned -- orcs are stupid).

[Scott Betts]

CPEvilref wrote:

Tatterdemalion wrote:

I need rules-legal half-orcs, and I need them now.

Of course, while we have to wait, my campaign can't. Has anyone given this any thought? It's also ocurred to me that half-orcs are mongrels -- even if I use a non-rules-legal version now, it's no big deal if it deviates from WotC's vision.

Thanks.

Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution

Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light

Half-Orc Defence Bonus: +1 Fort
+2 Endurance Checks
Half-Orc Fury: When Blooded gets a +1 bonus to damage (increases to +2 bonus to damage at 21st level)

Can Choose from Human Feats

Give them Warrior's Surge from the Orc racial ability in the MM

How's that grab you?

Also, if it wasn't clear from the MM entries, Warrior's Surge heals an amount equal to the character's healing surge value. You could word it as:

"The half-orc makes a melee basic attack and can spend a healing surge."
The latter part of the ability (the healing surge) is an effect, meaning it occurs whether or not the attack is successful.

[Scott Betts]

Tatterdemalion wrote:

CPEvilref:

Thanks.

I'm thinking of returning darkvision to orcs (and half-orcs), and imposing a -2 Intelligence (WotC's newfound political-correctness be damned -- orcs are stupid).

If you do that, consider giving half-orcs a third +2 stat or significantly increasing their other benefits (darkvision might balance that out, but I'm not sure).

[Matthew Koelbl]

Scott Betts wrote:

Tatterdemalion wrote:

CPEvilref:

Thanks.

I'm thinking of returning darkvision to orcs (and half-orcs), and imposing a -2 Intelligence (WotC's newfound political-correctness be damned -- orcs are stupid).

If you do that, consider giving half-orcs a third +2 stat or significantly increasing their other benefits (darkvision might balance that out, but I'm not sure).

I'd recommend against this - for most cases (any class that doesn't rely on Int), darkvision is more than enough of a balance. The current system, with multiple stats feeding into the Defenses, means one negative stat will almost always be less of a penalty than the bonus gained from an extra positive stat. Unless you are playing a class built for Int, such as a wizard, in which case the race is suddenly a bad choice no matter what you do - but there is no way to avoid that if you are including a penalty.

I suspect it won't be an issue, as most people won't be playing half-orc wizards, and the half-orc fighters won't be hindered by their low int in any tangible fashion. While I vastly prefer the current system of no-penalty races, I think in this case there won't be any great imbalance caused by it.

[Scott Betts]

Matthew Koelbl wrote:

Scott Betts wrote:

Tatterdemalion wrote:

CPEvilref:

Thanks.

I'm thinking of returning darkvision to orcs (and half-orcs), and imposing a -2 Intelligence (WotC's newfound political-correctness be damned -- orcs are stupid).

If you do that, consider giving half-orcs a third +2 stat or significantly increasing their other benefits (darkvision might balance that out, but I'm not sure).

I'd recommend against this - for most cases (any class that doesn't rely on Int), darkvision is more than enough of a balance. The current system, with multiple stats feeding into the Defenses, means one negative stat will almost always be less of a penalty than the bonus gained from an extra positive stat. Unless you are playing a class built for Int, such as a wizard, in which case the race is suddenly a bad choice no matter what you do - but there is no way to avoid that if you are including a penalty.

I suspect it won't be an issue, as most people won't be playing half-orc wizards, and the half-orc fighters won't be hindered by their low int in any tangible fashion. While I vastly prefer the current system of no-penalty races, I think in this case there won't be any great imbalance caused by it.

Normally I'd agree with you, but the two bonus stats the proposed half-orc receives both target the same defense (Fortitude). This is also the case with the Warforged, and the designers stated that as a result they purposefully increased the utility of the Warforged's other racial benefits. It really could go either way, though.

[CPEvilref]

Tatterdemalion wrote:

CPEvilref:

Thanks.

I'm thinking of returning darkvision to orcs (and half-orcs), and imposing a -2 Intelligence (WotC's newfound political-correctness be damned -- orcs are stupid).

I was just musing over my suggestions and thinking it did need something else as I compared it to the other classes. Darkvision might well be enough, all depending on how much of a factor you make vision and lighting in your games.

[Matthew Koelbl]

Scott Betts wrote:

Normally I'd agree with you, but the two bonus stats the proposed half-orc receives both target the same defense (Fortitude). This is also the case with the Warforged, and the designers stated that as a result they purposefully increased the utility of the Warforged's other racial benefits. It really could go either way, though.

The general rule is that if a class gets a boost to two connected stats (as in this case), to give them a boost to one of their other defenses. With these half-orcs, neither of the other defenses seems fitting to boost, so they end up somewhat overdosed on fortitude - but that doesn't put them too out of balance.

Taking a penalty to Int, meanwhile, will just about never give them any penalty unless they are playing a class based around Int. They will always be able to fall back on Dexterity instead to boost their Reflex or AC. Meanwhile, giving them another boost to a different stat would put them significantly above the power curve compared to other classes. Darkvision, meanwhile, is pretty strong in 4E - but not numerically unbalanced, and thus would be a good compliment to the Int penalty - especially given some of the other proposed racials are pretty strong. (Half-orc Fury, human feats, Warrior's Surge are all excellent.)

[P1NBACK]

Scott Betts wrote:

Normally I'd agree with you, but the two bonus stats the proposed half-orc receives both target the same defense (Fortitude). This is also the case with the Warforged, and the designers stated that as a result they purposefully increased the utility of the Warforged's other racial benefits. It really could go either way, though.

I thought it was the other way around? I thought the Warforged were so powerful, they purposely gave them two stat bonuses to the same defense (Fortitude). Same effect, different cause.

I could be wrong.

[Goth Guru]

This is why I come here.
Not the arguments.

half-orcs as a character race
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution -2 Intelligence
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Dark Vision
Half-Orc Defence Bonus: +1 Fort
+2 Endurance Checks
Half-Orc Fury: When Blooded gets a +1 bonus to damage (increases to +2 bonus to damage at 21st level)
Can Choose from Human Feats
Give them Warrior's Surge from the Orc racial ability in the MM

I will print this out and put it in the player's handbook.

[doppelganger]

P1NBACK wrote:

Scott Betts wrote:

Normally I'd agree with you, but the two bonus stats the proposed half-orc receives both target the same defense (Fortitude). This is also the case with the Warforged, and the designers stated that as a result they purposefully increased the utility of the Warforged's other racial benefits. It really could go either way, though.

I thought it was the other way around? I thought the Warforged were so powerful, they purposely gave them two stat bonuses to the same defense (Fortitude). Same effect, different cause.

I could be wrong.

I think you are correct. I recall one of the 4E designers saying that the eladrin were deliberately given dex and int bonuses (both feed the reflex defense) to weaken them slightly to balance the other racial bonuses. The will defense bonus was added as a final tweak.