While starting to implement the Wizard class in my Automated Character Sheet (based on Alpha 3), I noticed that the DC is based on Charisma instead of the expected Intelligence - I though this was a Typo!!
There is a thread in the ALpha 1 section where the author explains his choice...
I'd like to add my voice to those who think that it should remain INT instead of CHA...
I'll implement the Charisma side, but I disagree with the choice.
RiTz21
http://TheOnlySheet.com
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As of Beta the school powers are gone from what I understand replaced with bonus spells.While starting to implement the Wizard class in my Automated Character Sheet (based on Alpha 3), I noticed that the DC is based on Charisma instead of the expected Intelligence - I though this was a Typo!!
There is a thread in the ALpha 1 section where the author explains his choice...
I'd like to add my voice to those who think that it should remain INT instead of CHA...
I'll implement the Charisma side, but I disagree with the choice.
RiTz21
http://TheOnlySheet.com
Correct, the Paizo blog confirmed that the SLAs that used Charisma based DCs are being replaced with actual bonus spell slots to be memorized and used like all other spells - using the INT mod appropriately.
For the record I agreed with the OP, and lobbied for a change. I'm glad it is being changed.
Robert
Correct, the Paizo blog confirmed that the SLAs that used Charisma based DCs are being replaced with actual bonus spell slots to be memorized and used like all other spells - using the INT mod appropriately.
Well not exactly. I believe you are correct about the DC being INT based but the spells are not exactly "memorized and used like all other spells".
Wizard arcane schools got revised for the Beta. The big change here is that wizards now choose the spells that they gain upon reaching 2nd, 4th, 6th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 18th levels. These spells must be from their school and are set once selected. It should be noted again that these spells now act as bonus spells, not spell-like abilities. This change does not affect the supernatural abilities granted by arcane schools.
So like all other spells except you have to memorize the same spell in that slot every time.
Sorry to nit pick. Personally I'm in favor of making all wizard save DCs based on CHA... but I don't see that happening.
I still feel Wizard proponents are shooting themselves in the foot by pushing for this change. Spell-like Abilities are incredibly powerful compared to spells, even with a lower DC. With no components at all, you can be tied up, gagged, in a silenced area, with your hands cut off, and then blink your eyes and boom - Fireball! (or whatever).
I'll admit it simplifies things a bit though.
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I still feel Wizard proponents are shooting themselves in the foot by pushing for this change. Spell-like Abilities are incredibly powerful compared to spells, even with a lower DC. With no components at all, you can be tied up, gagged, in a silenced area, with your hands cut off, and then blink your eyes and boom - Fireball! (or whatever).
I'll admit it simplifies things a bit though.
True and I'll admit I hadn't thought about it from that angle; but even beyond that, it's not just the fact of the lower DC that issue was taken with it; there's also the issue that the alpha rules gave arbitrary choices at those levels for what you were allowed to cast.
Switching them to allow you to CHOOSE is a big improvement - even if they're "once chosen they remain that way" it still empowers the players freedom of choice.
Robert
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So like all other spells except you have to memorize the same spell in that slot every time.Sorry to nit pick. Personally I'm in favor of making all wizard save DCs based on CHA... but I don't see that happening.
well to nitpick back, I did say that they are "used" like all other spells (e.g. not spell like abilities - INT mod based DC etc).
I didn't say that they maintain the same flexibility of being interchanged and swapped out during memorization exactly the same of other spells.
I disagree on the DC based on CHA completely. The sorcerer fills that role.
Robert
True and I'll admit I hadn't thought about it from that angle; but even beyond that, it's not just the fact of the lower DC that issue was taken with it; there's also the issue that the alpha rules gave arbitrary choices at those levels for what you were allowed to cast.
Switching them to allow you to CHOOSE is a big improvement - even if they're "once chosen they remain that way" it still empowers the players freedom of choice.
The bonus spells are a good compromise. They give the player choice but it nerfs the PrCs, which is what the intent was. I'm not entirely sure I like the fact that they are chosen once then fixed but I can live with it.
I find it interesting that 8th level is the Su. So is there no 4th level bonus spell? Most of the 8th level abilities were cooler than a single spell (swift greater invis multiple times per day??? Sweet) and had a lot of the core class powers.
Is there still a "non-specialized" or "universal" option? Or is that gone?
Is there still a "non-specialized" or "universal" option? Or is that gone?
All we know is what is listed above. My guess is that there will be something for non-specialists but that is a WAG.
WAG? Is that "wild-arse guessing", as in akin to WMG for "wild mass guessing", or am I missing the intended meaning entirely?
I still feel Wizard proponents are shooting themselves in the foot by pushing for this change. Spell-like Abilities are incredibly powerful compared to spells, even with a lower DC. With no components at all, you can be tied up, gagged, in a silenced area, with your hands cut off, and then blink your eyes and boom - Fireball! (or whatever).
I'll admit it simplifies things a bit though.
Personally, I would have preferred to keep the SLA's, but allow the player to choose what spell they want as the SLA instead of making all Conjurers know Summon Monster I for example.
Still never agreed with the CHR-based DCs though....
Looks like I'll have to forego a character with the Quickened Spell-Like Ability feat. Bummer.
As of Beta the school powers are gone from what I understand replaced with bonus spells.
Woah...!
I was just about to enter all the Data for the ALpha 3 Wizard Schools... If the Beta gets rid of those, that would be wasted implementation work!!So may I humbly ask where is this Beta version you mention, so I can implement it 'correctly' on the first pass? Can it be downloaded from somewhere??
THANKS!
RiTz21
http://TheOnlySheet.com
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As of Beta the school powers are gone from what I understand replaced with bonus spells.Woah...!
I was just about to enter all the Data for the ALpha 3 Wizard Schools... If the Beta gets rid of those, that would be wasted implementation work!!So may I humbly ask where is this Beta version you mention, so I can implement it 'correctly' on the first pass? Can it be downloaded from somewhere??
THANKS!
RiTz21
http://TheOnlySheet.com
It's due this month. You can order it from their products page links on the homepage. 406 pages according to Jason!!!
I've ordered mine - I expect it within the next two weeks.
That being said - Paizo is offering it as a free PDF download, too! But I want a true copy in color so I ordered it - worth the 25 bucks for sure since it'll have to last a year until the final product is
released, and will be for our table THE rule book we'll be using.
Robert
WAG? Is that "wild-arse guessing", as in akin to WMG for "wild mass guessing", or am I missing the intended meaning entirely?
indeed